Ranek7212 said:

i'd rather have the royal marines than USMC as most the SBS are royal marines and they are as tep up from SAS who incidently train a lot of other country special forces.

and by the way if i recall corectly from litany of war we are getting infomation on chaplins and dreads in a later suplement "rites of battle" but thats out next winter **** it all

Winter 2011 = January and February.

Take heart for it is just around the corner!

thats good news i wonder if there is a rpg shop at kandahar? as thats where i'll be most that period

Drake56 said:

I can Agree to disagree, being slightly biased. Which I am sure you are to, being English or having been a part of the Royal Marines. Which is fine. But I just seem to remember 2 wars which the USMC won against the English. Still it is important to remember that most of the original US Marines came from the Royal Marines. So the USMC Came from Great Stock.

(Prepares for the onslaught of attacks from his cousins across the sea. Not trying to start anything, just being a Jarhead has to defend his brothers. )

Chaplains are the keepers of their chapter's traditions and distinctive specialties- all the stuff that makes a Black Templar different from an Ultramarine. That job really conflicts with the Deathwatch's integration efforts. An Iron Hands Iron Father, a Space Wolves Wolf Priest, etc., would really not mesh all that well.

Deathwatch Chaplains would have to be Deathwatch Chaplains, not Ultramarines Chaplains or whatever. It's someone who's devoted himself to the Deathwatch as his chapter (like the Black Shields). Right now we only have so many chapter backgrounds to start. Rites of Battle is supposed to have info on more chapter backgrounds, so I expect we'll see something about that in there.

Adamant said:

I don't know. That's not too far off from a Dark Angels Librarian knowing all manner of "inner Circle" info regarding the fallen and keeping it separate from his deathwatch duties. Or from a Blood Angels Apothecary keeping info regarding the Red Thirst to a minimum disclosure level whilst in the Deathwatch.

Space Marine chaplains are concerned with the spiritual well-being of their charges. A Catholic priest can reassure a Baptist about his faith in the Christian god without letting their theological differences get in the way. So can it be with faith in the Emperor and the Imperium of Man.

And remember, There are no wolves on Fenris...

No Wolves on Fenris? What? Confused now. There are wolves, and there are massive thunderwolves. All of this is mentioned by the scribes from the dawn of the Imperium. Now the Thunder wolf calavary is not mentioned much outside of the space wolves. Also I have seen people of a different faith, say mormon and Catholic go at it. When the Catholic chaplin got involved the Mormon was still upset and saying things about how catholics are satan worshippers or some such. Eventually that Marine was put down by the rest of his platoon and order restored, but it was not due to the efforts of the Chaplin.

Ranek7212 said:

But what is a wolf? What defines such a thing, beyond its name?

It is suggested - in The Thousand Son s , and apparently in the forthcoming Prospero Burns as well - that the Wolves of Fenris are not wolves at all, but the bestial descendants of mutated human colonists from times long forgotten, the cost of pre-Imperial genetic engineering that allowed humans to endure on a world so hostile as Fenris.

What he said.

That, or what happens when the curse of the wolfen runs its course.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Right...::Rolls his eyes:: Thousand Son Media brainwashing is obviously full of fail. I will never read The Thousand Sons book, as it does not interest me what lies was told in that book. Prospero Burns however does. If it is mentioned in the cannon then anyone who says that FSM can't exist will be pointed out that humans were turned into wolves, so Yes it can happen.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

That might explain their heightened cunning. Of course, they could be a xenos breed genetically similar to Terran wolves. Or even off-shots of Terran wolves which had been genetically altered to survive in the wilds of such a hostile planet. But, given how the Canis Helix can cause a Space Wolf mutate into a slavering half-man, half-wolf thing, I wouldn't discount the validity of mutant human-wolf things.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Ranek7212 said:

I do believe this idea was present pre-Thousand Sons Horus Heresy Novel.

I want to say that there was some info going around suggesting the wolves of fenris were the end state of the wulfen curse back when the 13th company list came out in Eye of Terror book, but I can't seem to find anything concrete on the net.

Ranek7212 said:

"Turned into wolves" is a frankly quite narrow way to look at it, and one which seems to ignore the fact that we're dealing with a world a considerable distance from Earth, upon which life will exist that doesn't necessarily bear any resemblance to the species we're familiar with. Mutated into creatures that superficially resemble, and have subsequently been named as, wolves is likely closer to the matter; certainly, the artwork for them published in the last couple of years depicts creatures that don't bear a strong resemblance to real wolves...

@bmaynard

I don't know. That's not too far off from a Dark Angels Librarian knowing all manner of "inner Circle" info regarding the fallen and keeping it separate from his deathwatch duties. Or from a Blood Angels Apothecary keeping info regarding the Red Thirst to a minimum disclosure level whilst in the Deathwatch.

Space Marine chaplains are concerned with the spiritual well-being of their charges. A Catholic priest can reassure a Baptist about his faith in the Christian god without letting their theological differences get in the way. So can it be with faith in the Emperor and the Imperium of Man.

When we come to some of the chapters, we're talking less catholic and baptist and more muslim and jew. They've got some basic ideas in common (the Emperor as the father of all marines), but beyond that, chapters have massive differences in faith and in doctrine, with some not even accepting the Codex Astartes. I don't think there's that much sense in having an ecumenical chaplain as he likely won't be able to satisfactorily provide spiritual help to the rather specific problems (the different primarchs' curses, questions on how chapter doctrines and deathwatch ideals interact and so on) a marine may have.

If your referring to the Model for Canis Wolfborn, the I will say that it is a terrible model. As for the proposed wolf novel cover, I thought they looked more like lions. Still if you look at the art from the Space Wolf codex, they are canine in appearance, cept for that one gay model. It looks like a giant rat.

personally not fussed about the us/royal marine thing, we train our bootnecks to put up with crap kit and make a **** good job of it, the us give their 'jarheads' some of the best kit out there and forget to ship the manual with it and have some rather lumpy ugly bastards (but used to it and very handy to have in a tight spot gunny sgt.) train everyone after almost breaking the kit finding out how its supposed to work.

give me SBS over SAS, just due to the better stock the come from ( rib, wind, rib) training over here is just plain nasty breacon to dartmore to norway all in the middle of winter with a pack of matches broken boots and a knife and a few tabs if you was able to smuggle any past the training officer.

any way way of post here opps

just a thought while at work, preists start early (not on the quior boy in 40k thankfully) and where a marine starts training for tactical, assault, devastator APOTHACARY why not chaplin as well, all that plain song chant has to be leant and sung, and the blessing over the fallen can only be said correctly if done over the fallen on the field with an initiate swinging the censure puffing incense ect. so chaplins from base shouldnt be a problem tbh.

found a link to a fan done astartes char gen and rules for heresy with chaplin rules and progression, have just got to find the link again file is called adeptus_astartes.pdf from tyranus conclave

Drake56 said:

im sure if able and if allowed we might come to an agreement on purchasing and shipping one over if needed.

jain zaranth said:

I know that Amazon ships to US Units in other countries with no extra cost. I had some WW products shipped to me while I was over there. (almost 4 years ago now.) So I would imagine that they will do the same for our English brethern in other units.

Ranek7212 said:

Really, these guys (below) are canine in appearance? They've got extremely broad, short faces compared to real wolves... my point here is that there's no reason to assume that they're in any way related to terran wolves, and are thus an alien animal which has been called a wolf at some point and the name has stuck (regardless of the species they actually are), or something else entirely... and the background is suggesting something else.

good piccy but they just look like pissed off long haired german shepherd dogs, but not a chaplin

it's almost definate that the wolves on fenris are marines who have been struck by the primarch's curse. Magnus knows it, as does Russ, and I believe that is the reason for the hatred between the 2.

Ranek7212 said:

I agree. It looks like a pomeranian.

Could we perhaps return from this fascinating zoological excursion to the subject of chaplains in the deathwatch?

I think the kicker for me is, "how close is the inquisition tied to the ecclesiarchy?"

Neither are formally part of the Adeptus Terra. They cooperate, in that the SoB's work with the Ordo Hereticus as the DW works with the Ordo Xenos.

The ecclesiarchy would have considerable issues with what the Chaplains have to say. I understand that the Astartes take a very different view of the emperor, as they are his descendants, from the view taken by the ecclesiarchy for the rest of the imperium. The primary ideology conflict would seem to be chapter cult vs. ecclesiarchy rather than chapter cult vs. inquisition (for chapter cults within three standard deviations of whatever the codex astartes has to say about chapter cults).

The inquisition accepts both its radical and its puritan sides. They don't get along, but they still are under the umbrella of the inquisition and use its authority and its resources. So the inquisition, as an umbreall of authority and resources, would seem to be perfectly happy to have chaplains on board.

If certain chapters beliefs (Mortificators from the Ultramarines novels for example) are extreme enough that the inquisition is looking into them as potential heretics, that may result in that chapter just not sending its chaplains and screening who it sends to the Deathwatch for brothers who won't (or can't) spill the beans on what the chapter cult hails to.

But I figure that if the Ordo Hereticus is snooping around an Astarte's chapter's cult, then they would want to keep it on the downlow sufficiently that the Ordo Xenos didn't know and so that Chaplains from that chapter did show up at the deathwatch on territory more to the inquistor's liking.

All in all, it seems that the Ordo Xenos won't care about differences in theology between the chapter cult and the ecclesiarchy as a matter of expediency, the Deathwatch has enough internal brains not to stick a Chaplain in a kill-team with battle brothers that will abhor him and lastly, chapters that are far enough out in wackyland with what their chapter cult preaches just won't send chaplains anyway.