When I enter in a new Career, if new Career has not slots matching Talents Type I have, well, how can I use Talents gained?

I make an example:

I'm leaving a career that had 2 Talents Slot: 1 Reputation and 1 Focus. I've bought 3 Talents: 2 Reputation and 1 Focus.

I enter in a new career that has 2 Talent Slots: 2 Tactics.

Well: cannot I use the 3 Talents that I've previously bought (2 Reputation and 1 Focus) because I have not slots matching them?

So they're useless, least until I will enter a new career that has slots matching them?

You can use them with the party sheet, if it has appropriate slots, otherwise, yeah, they're not much use to you. Look at it like an ex-soldier not finding much use for his talents when he gets a job in a bank, or vice versa.

monkeylite said:

Ok, the Narrative ratio is clear.. but it's a terrible rule!, mainly because you've invested Advance Points in something that.. become wasted!

If you invest Advance Points in Skills, Fortune Dice, Wounds, Stances, etc that Advances Points never become wasted !

Think also to another point; let me do an example:

A characted has already spent 9 Advancement Points in Advancement Options; he has only 1 Advancement Option left, and that's a Talent Card. He needs only 1 Advancement to change career.

Well, at the end of the session that character gains 2 experience points: he would like to invest 1 of them buying a Talent (that's the Advancement Option left) and 1 to change Career... but in the new career he do not have slots matching the talent just bought.

So, paradoxly, he has spent 1 Advance in something that never used neither will use!!!

you rarely have no common slots between Careers your character would change to. Unless you go from Thug to Scholar or something weird like that

The point you make is still valid, but from what i've seen, would not be a problem. Players won't buy 3 Talents on the 1st Career (and most Career cannot buy that many) to change Career and not be able to use them anymore (they can plan at least one Career ahead). They would buy one to put on Party sheet if they find it very good though. (at least, my players)

Unless you play Troll Slayer type Career (2 slots of the same type), you won't buy 3 or more Talent of that type to switch Career and not be able to use them anymore : you still plan a little or you simlply cannot get to a career without at least one Talent slot in common

In your very bad exemple, it cannot happen because each career has 14 advance options. You will never have Talent-only choice as 10th Career Advance even if your Career offers 3 Talents purchase, which makes it 4 buyable Talents. You can get the 10 others. I don't remember seeing a Career having 4 Talent Advances

Galdor said:

You are not limited to buying talents that you can use in your current career. It's a good idea to plan what talents you buy based on what career you're heading for. So, for example, if you're in a career that only uses 2 Reputation talents and are planning to switch to one that has 2 Focus Talents, you might want to use that last advance to buy a Focus talent.

But the better idea would really be to not transition into a career where you can't use any of your talents. Or if you want to transition to that career anyway, avoid getting Talents you won't be able to use.

Remeber though, even if you can't use the Talent in your new career, it can still be used on the Party Sheet and you can later transition into another career where you can use the Talent again. (And if you're lucky/smart, all the different Talents you have aquired)

In your very bad exemple, it cannot happen because each career has 14 advance options

No, that's not correct (by rules).

There are only 10 Advancement Options total and once you've bought 10 Advancement Options (filling all 10 lines on the back of your character sheet) you have to change career.

Ralzar said: You are not limited to buying talents that you can use in your current career. It's a good idea to plan what talents you buy based on what career you're heading for. So, for example, if you're in a career that only uses 2 Reputation talents and are planning to switch to one that has 2 Focus Talents, you might want to use that last advance to buy a Focus talent.

That's a really good idea. Thanks Ralzar.

Anyway, alas, my gaming experience tells me that you should enter a career that doesn't match talent types you previously bought.

My complain is that Advances spent in such talents are wasted; and that doesn't happen for all other advances -skills, wounds, etc- which are ever wasted!!

Yeah, you can put your useless talent on party sheet... but only, again, if party sheet has matching slots

Galdor said:

Not quite. There are 4 advances you HAVE to take. One of these is a Talent. So you're forced to take 1 Talent no matter what. But for the other 6 advances, you could avoid taking any more talents unless you have a career that offers less than 6 other alternatives.

Remember that the 4 general advances do NOT count towards the advances listed on your career sheet.

Edit: Here's an example. I seem to remember you being a Hunter, so I'll use that.

General Advances you have to take: 1 Action, 1 Skill, 1 Talent and 1 Wound.

Career Advances available for the other 6 advances: 2 Actions, 2 Talents, 2 Skills, 1 Fortune, 1 Conservative, 1 Recless, 1 Wound.

So, to avoid extra Talents, you could do this for the 6 open advances:

2 Actions, 2 Skills, 1 Fortune, 1 Wound.

You now have completed your career with only 1 Talent.

There is also a Talent that lets you exhaust it to then attach any other Talent, regardless of type, to that slot. If I recall correctly, it's eithar a Focus or Reputation Talent called 'Resourceful' and is one of the Talents included in Gathering Storm (and the new Players Guide I'd guess).

Anyway, planning ahead is the best way to avoid this situation completely.

There are 4 FIXED Career Advances that any wharacter can purchase, whatever Career he is in. Those are listed on the back of the character sheet : 1 Action, 1 Talent, 1 Skill (or spec) and 1 Wound.

There are 6 Open Career Advances. You can have with those Career attributes purchase (which FAQ clarified and says max attribute is 6) or other Advances purchase, available from the Career sheet (the 10 options listed on the front).

The Fixed Career Advances are juste that, predetermined options available whatever career you are in (p.34). Thus a Scholar can buy a Wound advance (the career sheet list 0 Wound as Open Career advance option). A Troll Slayer could buy up to 4 (1 Fixed and 3 Career)

These 6 Open Career advances are bought from the options listed on the front of the Career sheet (p34-36).

From the book p34 :

Following the four fixed advances are a number of flexible career
advances. These career advances offer a great deal of customisation
and are tied to the advantages and abilities of that particular career.
Each career card lists the number of career advances that can be
spent on the different options.

To sum it up :

1. 4 fixed advances (no choice)
2. 6 open options : Career Attribute(s) or advances listed on the front of the career sheet. (lots of choice)

Ralzar said:

It seems to me that you do have to purchase talents that are eligable for the current career you are in, and only those talents, as per page 35 of the rulebook under the heading General Career Advances, unless of course this has been erreta'd. However talents are just a nice secondary option in my opinion. Better to spend the bulk of your advancements on characteristic upgrading and skill/action acquiring. However as the GM I reserve the right to bend the rules for my players enjoyment!

The Strolling Bones said:

Hm, you seem to be right. What confused me is that in the character creation part, you CAN take Talents you can't use. P31:

""The player may choose cards from any of the Talent types, but will only be able to use abilities on talent cards that match the slots available on his character's career card"

Sort of strange that there's a difference between character creation and advances post-creation. It is after all much the same, and it makes a lot less sense to invest in a Talent you can't use when creating the character as opposed to using one of the last advances to buy a Talent for the career you're transitioning into.

I'm having a similar issue right now.

I'm getting to play for the first time! After GMing since release, I'm finally relinquishing the GM position and starting my own character. I chose the Zealot, as a career path to the Witch Hunter.

I purchased my insanity for the Zealot during creation. He has an insanity slot. His 'career card' states that he can exhaust this card, once per session, for an effect.

If I complete the career I get to keep the career card, but since I'm going to Witch Hunter, and it doesn't have an insanity card, it's useless

...Unless I can exhaust the insanity without it being socketed. I don't think so though.

I always saw the zealot's insanity as a sort of uncontrolled force or source of frenzy rage. Perhaps the Witch Hunter has learned to control or suppress his insanity enough to retain some semblance of sane credibility that would lend weight to his condemning demands. Otherwise people might just see him as a prophet of doom and not take him seriously.

Just a thought.

-L

maybe the Flagelant / Prophet of Doom are more suitable after the Zealot start.

The Witch Hunter is an Official in the Empire, he carries important missions for the Temple of Sigmar, etc. Having an un/half-controled person doing that job may not be what the Church is looking for

Starting as some other Career working for the Temple of Sigmar or the Empire (Soldier, Road Warden, Hunter, etc) could be a good introduction before joining the rank of Witch Hunters.

I think people tend to confuse 'Zealot' with 'Flagellate'. Zealots don't have to be frothing at the mouth, insane berserkers, just very 'dedicated' to their religion or the path they choose. They can even be (mostly) sane. My insanity is 'Terrifying Visions', which affects my rest and recovery. It is a Sev 3, so could be pretty handy with the Zealot special ability. As soon as I cut over to Witch Hunter, I will start poking at my brain with a hot wire in an attempt to cure it (since it will no longer be useful). It would be cool if you could continue to slot the insanity like you (must) slot diseases. I may keep it just for roleplay purposes.

That brings up an excellent point: Why do Zealots (and Witch Hunters for that matter) have Piety? So far as I can tell, it's simply for currying favor. I mean, it may have some roleplay uses, but mechanically it is 'the divine equivalent to channeling'.

So, does this mean, if you have Piety, you have 'favor' and so have access to the basic priestly spells and spells that do not involve invocation?

Some examples are:

• Basic: Curry Favor (Piety check) and Minor Blessing (No check)
• Sigmar: Gritted Teeth (No check), Penitent Zeal (Piety check), and Sigmar's Hammer (WS vs TD)
• Shallya: Time of Need (No check)
• Morr: Speed Morr's Hand (No check)

I guess that brings up the question, can you purchase the Invocation skill as a 'out of career' skill? If so, you could pick a deity and start casting!

i've seen several knowledge checks involving Piety (Eye for an Eye, TGS).

Pious knowledge, or facts known to "clergy" could be : infos about things they would hunt/destroy (like how to kill a Necromancer or some of the powers they use), rituals they use for special purposes, more traditional knowledge linked to Religions and not only there own, etc.

That would fit well for the Witch Hunter, whom is a special branch of Sigmar's church. They don't invoc Blessing though, that would need long years of dedication and training before becoming an Initiate (same for Apprentice Wizards and years of practice before casting spells).

I don't think it says anywhere that you can't buy it, but I think you have to pay for the skill, the 'talent' Diety (wizard schools and dieties are decribed as talents under Talents in the book) and then for each spell you wish to acquire.

For piety, well the classes seem very pious to me

-L

Oh, good point on the knowledge aspect. That makes total sense. Although, as a GM I wouldn't frown on a Witch Hunter using 'Sigmar's Hammer' or 'Gritted Teeth', or a Zealot using 'Penitent Zeal' if there's nothing in the rules preventing them from it. I mean, even though they may use it for knowledge type checks, there's no reason why they couldn't 'Curry Favor' and subsequently use that favor to do some 'non-invocation' actions.

i see what you mean.

From what i understood at 1st, is that to be able to use Blessings (most of them Invocation based), you need to have a Faith Talent card, then you can acquire and use Blessing Card of that Faith (only). You of course need to acquire the skill to cast one 1st (you don't need Piety if it is not Piety based). The only Career with Faith slot Talent are the Priesthood series (Initiate/etc.)

We know Witch Hunter are Sigmarites, but they don't fit the requirement of the Priesthood series (Faith Talent slot and card) that would make them able to use Blessing Actions (upper left corner symbol book with comet). I based my thinking from that, and came up with the knowledge approach of Piety skill when i saw a couple Careers with it and no reason for it as the Career is unable to use favors (unable to acquire Benedictions nor Invocation skill). Piety could represent the knowledge of how to deal with the things they are supposed to "deal with" (Chaos, Magic, heresy, etc.), as much thru hunting, fighting, breaking their work, etc. knowledge.

Piety is a WP skill so it could also be thought of as a measure of their faith and mental stamina when opposing the unnatural enemies of the Empire. Think Dracula: Van Helsing is trying to force the vampire back with the use of his cross (His holy symbol). He is exerting his will over the creature in the name of his god, asking his god to give him strength in the task at hand. The GM could allow the Witch Hunter to use Piety instead of just WP in such a situation. The same would go in a situation of excorsicm and so on. A contest of Will Power/ Opposed WP check.

The For.. Faith is strong with this one.

héhé why not But it is supposed to be the domain of Discipline skill i guess (mental fortitude / resolve)

Discipline could be the mental defence should the opposite situation happen. The daemon exerting its will over the witch hunter.

Whereas Piety is the mental 'attack'.

Ok, despite all last posts, don't you think that Talents are the ONLY ONE Advancement Option that should become useLESS?!

Galdor said:

Strictly speaking, you are correct. But this sort of thing happens all the time. I might have an affinity for numbers, but I get a job as a gardener - no real call for that specific talent there (in general). The trick is to try to stick to careers where your talents AREN'T wasted. And as you have free will of which career you exit to, that should be reasonably easy to manage.

Hello,

but what I don't get is that for example if you go from solder to initiate -> disciple (I think this could be a typical worrier priest of sigmar). You are not able to use charge anymore?! How is this explainable in roleplay (and there are a lot of other things like this). Please let me know how you handle things like this.

I’m the sword
Lother