Have never been able to beat either of these AO, if we went to the final battle.

Both have Physical and Magical Immunity (Zhar only one each round, but have to fight him twice), only a -3 to combat/fight checks but, their attacks just devour 1st player.

Just can’t crack these AO’s, any one had a success?

Paulis said:

It's theoretically possible and can be done with preparing to fight them from the beginning of the game. Without intent to defeat them in final combat, you have almost no chance though.

Obviously you should go for a sealing victory though :')

Both are possible, but nasty. Zhar has half the immunities as Quachil, an easier modifier, and kills the investigators at half the rate. Even though he requires more hits to go down, he's definitely much easier. I've actually come close against Zhar. I can't do crap against Quachil because there are so few effects that overcome double immunity.

Tibs said:

You can do it by gathering allies, blessing, clue tokens, combat skills, and hunting for the shotgun and ancient one attacks skip items. Probably going for shotgun, blessing, clues and combat skills are most important. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to kill him in one round of combat if you're unscrupulously OCD enough :')

And lucky. And not using Kevin's clue/seal limit rule.

The weapon Athame(sp?) from the Common item deck grants its user a +6 to all Combat checks against enemies and AOs with magical immunity, and you've got Zoey Samaras, the Chef who treats all immunities as resistances, so that's a start, I guess. Bring many clues, a shotgun(secondary abilities of weapons count even the combat check bonus is nullified) and have everone blessed. Any allies and items(won't work against Quachil as all allies are discarded) that cancel AO's attacks/devouring for one round may also help. I've never defeated either in final battle, though. They're probably the most difficult AOs in the game.

zealot12 said:

Aside from the AO who just wins of course:)

Let's not forget Allies and QU don't like each other, probably why QU eats all Allies at the Start of Combat.

And Shotgun doesn't do anything against QU or the Physical Immunity portion of Zhar . I would be lunacy I tell you!

I think secondary abilities of weapons can still be used. Physical Immunity only cancels the weapon's bonus. But this is up for debate.

zealot12 said:

RAW yes, but it's still crazy . Poor Lloigors getting hit by Shotguns despite their Weapon Immunity .

Right, theres no way thats ever getting past me. Its weapon immunty FFS.

Avi_dreader said:

I've always wanted to know for sure, do "ancient one attack skip" items only work for the investigator using them or do they protect the whole group from the AOs attack?

As for the shotgun, if the monster/AO has weapon immunity and a modifier of -3, you get to roll what, 3-4 dice at best. Might as well consider sixes as a double success, for all it counts Imagine the investigator shooting it in the eye while kicking it in the groin...

The whole group is protected by a single attack cancelling item.The Ancient One simply skips his attack for one round.

I think i read somewhere that even if the turn is skipped, the modifier to the skill check (if there is such in the attack of AO) is increased (in fact, decreased...).

For example, if you're fighting Yog-Sothoth, first round you need a Will check with +1 modifier. If you skip Yog-Sothoth second attack, during the third round, the Will check will have a -1 modifier.

To be confirmed.

Hugues

Thanks zealot, I've been playing it that way (that is, the one time I had such an item), now I know for sure.

Hugues, I can confirm that, I think it's in the Errata of the big bog expansions.

Tox said:

As for the shotgun, if the monster/AO has weapon immunity and a modifier of -3, you get to roll what, 3-4 dice at best. Might as well consider sixes as a double success, for all it counts Imagine the investigator shooting it in the eye while kicking it in the groin...

You can still use Spells vs Weapon Immunity. And it baffles me that Shotty can kill Lloigor with 1 6, while you need 2 hits if you decide to use Dynamite (or Tommy Gun, Flamethrower, Sword of Glory, which is amped up with buttkicking magics! and many more weapons). Lloigor doesn't care what you hit it with and I'd say blasting away with a Tommy Gun gives the investigator a better rush than a blam-blam shotty .

Dam said:

Tox said:

As for the shotgun, if the monster/AO has weapon immunity and a modifier of -3, you get to roll what, 3-4 dice at best. Might as well consider sixes as a double success, for all it counts Imagine the investigator shooting it in the eye while kicking it in the groin...

You can still use Spells vs Weapon Immunity. And it baffles me that Shotty can kill Lloigor with 1 6, while you need 2 hits if you decide to use Dynamite (or Tommy Gun, Flamethrower, Sword of Glory, which is amped up with buttkicking magics! and many more weapons). Lloigor doesn't care what you hit it with and I'd say blasting away with a Tommy Gun gives the investigator a better rush than a blam-blam shotty .

It's all about the caliber

Shotgun is two-hands, so one except Marie can use more than their Fight modifier if the enemy has weapons immunity.

Right, Hugues. The modifier is applied every round. Canceling an AO's attack doesn't change the fact that a round has gone by.

The only way to even stand a remotely realistic chance against Quachil in final battle is for the stars to align and get ridiculously lucky collecting EVERY specific, rare anti-ancient one item, ally, and personal mission in the game. I'm talking the mission (task?) that removes doom tokens, Lili Chen's personal mission (when there's a real chance Lili will be devoured by Quachil's slumber ability before then), two or more of the items that cancel out an AO attack, in addition to everyone being blessed with a ridiculous amount of clue tokens and skills.

So that's pretty much never going to happen unless you set out to stack the deck from the beginning (choosing investigators after AO is drawn, culling item decks).

I did out the math a while ago, and even with 8 investigators, all of them blessed (and never losing their blessings), all with a natural fight of 6 (eight such investigators do not even exist), with every single clue token in the game, and even without using epic battle cards, then statistically it still wasn't going to happen.

So, either the 0.1% chance you gather all the specific anti-AO stuff above, or solo Joe Diamond shotgun cheese. Those are pretty much your only two options. I don't think ANYONE has beat Quachil in a legitimate game yet.

Quachil's doom track has 12 doomers. Imagine a party with Norman, Marie, Lily and Patrice. Everyone has passed his personal story and Norman is blessed. Lily's "This is it" removes 2 doomers. Marie's "Witch blood" another 2. Norman's "The path is lit" requires 4 dice to be rolled, removing a doomer for every success. Since he's blessed, it's statistical expecting 2 successes, and this means poor Quachil remains with 6 doomers and this before the final battle starts. If Quachil was awakened via "Call the AO", he's simply dead. Even with a 4 sanity cost, without abusing of the spell, he remains with 2 doomers, which means 8 successes. Shouldn't be that difficult.
Even in case you don't have used that spell, with Patrice in party you should have enough clues to reduce Quachil to a handful of dust (unless you use Kevin's "clue per seal" recommended house rule, but even in this case, you should probably have time enough for winning)

Obviously, certain conditions should be met, and for some characters, Quachil is simply unbeatable, but he is not unbeatable per se.

Anyway, I think some people killed him in final combat. If I remember correctly, Jgt was able to beat in final combat (at least once) all the AOs in the game

When playing against Quachil for the first time, I thought his slumber ability was something to fear, but really, there's only a remote chance of being devoured by it-if you run out of Clue tokens when the third dust deck starts, and knowing there's only one card that kills you, why should one even bother spending clues before the beginning of the third deck? I guess, the slumber ability simply helps to promote the atmosphere of impending doom that lingers in the air in a QU game. I recall my very first session against him-it was pretty tense.

Then again, you could still be devoured in three turns, if you're extremely unlucky.

How does everyone rank the AOs in terms of final battle difficulty?

My top list would be something like this:

Quachil Uttaus

Zhar

Cthugha

Tsathoggua

Yibb Tstll

Nygotha

Chaugnar Faugn

Abhoth

Julia said:

What! He didnt tell me! How did he beat Azzie?!? Tear up the card ?

dj2.0 said:

I meant, I think he was able to beat all the beatable-in-final-combat AOs ::laughing::

Ok, important question here:

Final combat against Glaaki, no servants in play yet, terror level at 4. Glaaki attacks, terror level raised by 1, ally is discarded...does a servant enter "play"? That is, does the servant activate its ability even if it's not technically "in play"? In the last game we decided against servants entering play in final combat, because the result was not going to change much even if we did allow it- we would still have beaten him. I'd still like to know what is the official ruling on this.

Yes, a servant does enter play each time Glaaki attacks(one servant per terror level increase), and activates his special ability.