Are the investigators basically invincible in the final battle with Glaaki when Charlie Kane is in the group? With a pass on his personal story, he may prevent the terror level from rising by spending a clue token. If he's got a "Clue-producing" skill/ally or item that allows him to spend one Clue token per turn indefinitely, that means the investigators have no chance of losing in final battle. Thoughts?

zealot12 said:

Well... If I remember correctly either there's a petition among those of us working on the proto-FAQ to ban clue gaining during final combat, or it's already happened (it's been a long time since I've looked at the thing, so I can't remember), but yes, clue gaining in final combat leads to a number of potential auto-win issues :'/

Once again, I feel the need to offer up the Rhan-Tegoth clause: "Nothing can prevent this rise in the Terror Track."

Remarkably, this also solves the problem.

Uh oh. Zealot just uncovered a nasty one: Charlie Kane + Personal Story win + Granny Orne. Unlike all the other situations that cause problems in this way, this combination does not involve gaining clues in any way.

I'd hate to say that Granny Orne must be discarded when the AO awakens, because she can still be useful in other AO battles (plus discarding her would increase the terror level). Maybe if the AO awakens, Arkham's citizens no longer trust Kane's promises for a better future, so "Kane for Arkham!" must be discarded. If "Dark Times Ahead" was in play, it would remain in play.

Funny you should mention Granny Orne. She was the first discarded Ally in our game against Glaaki tonight. Of course, with Charlie's Connections ability, he couild've claimed her, which was our intent all along, but Glaaki awoke unexpectedly(due to a rift movement) just before Charlie could make it to Ma's Boarding House. He still had 4 Clue tokens on him which enabled him to negate the AO's attack for 4 turns. We've decided to play with the Epic Battle cards to even out the odds, and almost lost with the Terror track reaching 8, one inevestigator was devoured in the previous round and the remaining two were barely breathing with 1 Sanity and Stamina each. It's a good thing thing one of them was Blessed, or we would've lost for sure. Overall, a triumph with three investigators(Spy, Politician and Seaman) against Glaaki in Epic Battle.It was so much fun.

Don't forget that a devoured investigator means +2 terror level. You sure you won?

Yep, nothing was forgotten. We were lucky, though. The final battle started with the Terror track at 2(a Mythos environment card really helped with keeping it at bay for several turns), and there was Charlie, of course.

Tibs said:

Oh good golly gee. Tibs, this has to stop. You're out of control.

>ahem< "Nothing can prevent this rise in the Terror Track." One phrase. I mean, instead of filtering through each and every card looking for every possible "broken" combination. (Which apparently we are still capable of uncovering as time goes on.)

By the way, I'm not entirely clear on this; during the game one investigator was forced to discard an item that "cannot be lost or stolen". Are items of this type discarded anyway?

jgt: simple as that solution is, I like the idea that some terror-prevention items can be used to buy you time (Director's Diary, for example). Anyway, I think (not 100% sure) it's already been ruled that Kane can prevent terror-ups during final battle. If that's the case I'd hate to see the ruling reverted there. If that's not the case, then well... you're on to something.

zealot12 said:

You mean by Glaaki's minions?

"Each investigator must discard 1 Common Item, if able."

If your last remaining common item (or all your remaining common items) is a "do not discard unless you allow," then you get to keep it. If you have any common items that don't have that protection, then you have to choose one item to discard. If could be the non-protected one, or a protected one.

Tibs said:

Yea. Thanks, that's the way we were playing.

There are many “combo’s” that make it an easier win scenario.

Our group’s latest one was, Marie Lambeau was been played and someone drew the Massa di Requiem per Shuggay unique item in setup, (4 move pts and Will -2 check, Immediately awakens Ancient One).

This all happened 1st turn so, movement phase; Massa Tome is read, then straight to AO battle. Marie uses her remove doom token, as there is only one, game over. Easy win, no real fight all done 5 mins.

But to get this Marie was a pick and then we are playing with both Dunwich and Kingsport boards, plus 76 unique items to get lucky enough to draw the Massa.

It happens, we look at it as a small ray of sunshine, in what can otherwise be a quick run to been devoured by the AO.

We always draw our Ancient One after Investigators are drawn, can limit some having strengths against the AO’s attacks, abilities.

Umm, you have to fill the doom track completely before battling the Ancient One, even when he awakens prematurely.

zealot12 said:

Ahh missed that one, I just looked it up in rule book and found it. Whoops.

Well we did a reset that game and got eaten the second time around.

zealot12 said:

::Laughter::

But that tome, and similar AO summoning items and spells are a great way to battle the Old Ones that only get stronger as the game progresses, like Shudde Mell, Eihort and Hastur, for instance. If you're playing against Yib Tstll with Innsmouth, there's a wonderful, though rare way to weaken her considerably. One of the Mythos cards in IH removes all Clue tokens from the board, so if she is awakened after this Mythos is drawn, her combat rating would be zero.

Another thought just occurred to me...

In the unlikely, but possible, situation that Charlie Kane has Granny Orne, Changed, and Mythos Lore, then he can freely spend three clue tokens per round. That means that even with a failed personal story he could neuter Glaaki.

It looks like our only two reasonable options are that Kane can't use his ability during final battle, or Glaaki's attack cannot be prevented. Thematically and mechanically, I like the former option more.

So, I suppose, until something official is said or someone comes with a better idea, I'll be playing that Charlie Kane can't use "Settle Down" during final combat.

Hmm,

not sure if this is practicable or even a good idea, but I generally dislike to always rule against the investigators. Why not try a compromise like "In final battle Charlie can use his ability only every other turn." It preserves some of his ability to counter Glaaki, which is one of his strong points after all, but prevents any "Auto-Win"-Scenario, no matter how many clues or clue-generators he´s got.

Best regards

Enas :-)

My thematic reasoning is that Glaaki is rising and driving the town into panic. There's probably nothing Kane can do to re-assure the citizens now as they watch the thorny space-slug rise from the sea to crush their town, so it works better for me if "Settle Down" simply cannot be used.