A friend of mine was not too happy with this trait he feels the benefits do not out way the xp cost. I disagree I feel the ability to have a piece of Wargear that is always with you regardless of mission load out. AS I sead it could represent the Bolt Pistol that the first member of your family receive when he became a Space marine and ever member of you family is allowed to carry as mark of respect your ancestor accrued.

No, I think the renown limit should stay.

Then again I'm also of the opinion the only way a Battle-Brother should get bionic implants is through "free" replacements of combat injuries or by purchasing them with signature wargear. I have a friend who is GMing, one of whom's players is just using all his mission requisition to load himself up with bionics since he gets to keep them after the mission. That is pretty munchkiny in my opinion.

GalagaGalaxian said:

Yes, I would agree with this notion as well. In the novels, the only reason that a space marine would give up a piece of himself would be due to losing said piece in combat... unless he was in the Iron Hands chapter OR if he were a Techmarine, in which case he would give up pieces as necessary.

I would also rule that unless the marine loses the function of his limbs, etc from combat that he cannot willingly replace pieces of himself (once again, Techmarines can and should do this as necessary... for the Flesh Is Weak).

At what point during all this bionic enhancement would a Chapter not just say, "Lets put him in a Dreadnaught now."?

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Good question, they never really mentioned it anywhere that I read. At what point would they just throw the proverbial "towel" and place him in a dreadnaught?

My guess would be if he couldn't survive without a life-sustaining machine. I'm not just talking about a bionic lung or two... but that there wasn't enough left of him to really restore him to full functionality or even half functionality.

When he needs to be permanently bed-ridden or hooked up to a machine to stay alive that he can't carry around with him.. then it's Dreadnaught time.

The Wargear modification rules do not seem to flow nicely with the requisition system. Some of the modifications do not seem to warrant the end cost. For example a 15-requisition item being upgraded to the next quality level (x1.5) becomes 22.5-requisition. I do not think a +1 to damage to a flamer would be worth 1,500 XP.

Take a look at the cost of making a cool chainsword verses the cost of a power-ax.

It just seems wonky.

Something like . . .
5-pt item with 4 minor improvements
10-pt item with 3 minor improvements
15-pt item with 2 minor improvements
20-pt item with 1 minor improvement
*****1-8 points is a minor improvement, 9+ is a major improvement (costing two minor improvements)
. . . would allow for the wonkiness to vanish.

darkrose50 said:

You are rigth of course but there are intangible benefits to having mastercrafted items. Its prestige related and it might provide you some interaction bonuses should your GM feel so inclined.

hoe much requisition it whould costs to have a RH sword with mono and sanctified weapon (IH) ?

Re: Signature Wargear

The Requisition rules for Signature Wargear seem wonky.

What about 25 XP per requisition point of the base item, and 25 XP per requisition point in modifications. No more than 15-points of modifications. Round up to the next 100 XP.

. . . and Signature Wargear (Master) replaces 15-points of modifications with 35-points of modifications . . .

. . . and Signature Wargear (Hero) replaces 35-points of modifications with 65-points of modifications . . .

. . . and perhaps change the cost of Exceptional and Master to . . .

Exceptional +5-requisition (per rank of Renown required)
Master +10-requisition (per rank of Renown required)

Initiated [5/10]
Respected [10/20]
Distinguished [15/30]
Famed [20/40]
Hero [25/50]

. . . and perhaps allow Signature Wargear to buy Exceptional quality, and Signature Wargear (Master) to buy Master quality. Prerequisite character renown be damned.

. . . and perhaps keep Signature Wargear (Hero) to heroes.

I guess I was lucky. My Salamander Devastator took Signature Wargear and selected a Flamer. Its a Flamer he helped forge and is his personal weapon from long before becoming a Devastator even.

Then again I have a Space Wolf Assault Marine who doesn't use the jump pack because he thinks its unfluffy.

Lucius Valerius said:

fixed, sorry for the typos and I still don't have the book =/

kenshin138 said:

Its players like this I like. Not the kinds plotting to be able to fire 6 Storm Bolters at once by abusing MIU interfaces and forearm and shoulder mounts.

(The rules don't work that way anyways).

darkrose50 said:

Can you walk me through the math on that?

Wouldn't you just take signature wargear for 500 points which gives you 1 item worth 20req and use it for a Master Crafted Flamer?

Flamer is 10 requisition (x2 for master crafted craftsmanship = 20), MC adds 2 damage and you only paid 500 xp for it.

bmaynard said:

Quite right. My eyes were playing tricks, and I was looking (in error) at the 15 wt.

You should not be able to get cybernetics with normal requisition points.

Or at the very least, you should have to pay for them every single mission (in effect counting as a permanent reduction in your personal requisition).

To be honest, with the signature wargear as someone said earlier I do my best to stay as fluffy as possible to my character, what he does and how he'd think. I'm playing a Salamanders Apothecary and used my signature wargear to get a Diagnostor Helmet. It's only 15 req points and I could probably afford it each mission, but I figure if he's served as an Apothecary in his home Chapter and he truly cares about the battle Brothers he fights with he'd have something like this as personal kit. The only other thing I'm weaving into my story is that he forged his combat knife himself, but seeing as that's always standard issue then I'm not going to worry about that too much.

I was looking at the post here and saw something that make me feel quite disturb.

A SM trading part of his "holly" body against some cybernetics implants without needs.

I'm sure that some inquisition staff member would be quite interrested by somebody willingly alterate and destroying the making of the Emperor of Mankind.

I think that chapter Chaplain and officers would also asked themselves if this poor SM is not became crazy at some point during his latest mission, and with no anger put him in jail the time to know why their brother act like a fool.

Last point but not the least, how many times is spend between requisition and mission. Because as some know (but not everybody) even SM needs a lot of time to attune themselves with cybernetic implants and are not ready for battle before weeks even months when the replacement is for example locomotion or manipulating objects (legs or arms) or linked to the sensory like eyes (80% of informaton from external world recieved by our brain), ears ( with balance), etc..

I was also forgetting that requisition are by name limited in time, does apothicary and techmarines dismembering the SM at mission end? No, so it's not requisition.

Edit: In fact one of the only way to get cybernetics instead of flesh and bones so freely would be to play an Iron Hands SM, but even there like for the adeptus mechanicus they will get it when getting more and more famous and known for their act of bravery and dedication to their services.

kenshin138 said:

Doesn't like the skyclaws then eh?

I've been told you can requisition a deamonhammer with signature wargear (master) since his availability is extremely rare and that means 31-50 requisitions... is that true ?

one point that i think hasnt been covered - economy. assuming you were going to use the weapon in question anyway, youre paying 500XP for 20 free requisition EVERY mission.

if you have something to spend it on, it could potentially be worth a lot in the long run, especially when you get the renown for

to start off with though, here are some options which hit 20 req and seem worth taking as signature wargear.

master crafted hand flamer
master crafted flamer
heavy flamer
heavy bolter (for tactical marines, apothecaries, techmarines)
master crafted shotgun with RDL sight or chain melee attachment
master crafted missile launcher
back banner
jump pack (non assault marines)
diagnostor helmet (for apothecary medicae madness)
master crafted chainsword (only 10 req)
sniper rifle
sacred unguents
signum link
auspex
combi tool
psy focus
servo skull

get respected level of renown, and suddenly you get power swords and axes, combi weapons, storm bolters, plasma and melta guns.

id love to nitpick, but i really dont see a problem with this. if you complete 4 missions to their completeness you will have the required renown, less with a smattering of amazing acts of valour. personally i wouldnt see a problem with giving the kill team 10 or so renown to start off with to get them started a bit quicker.

don't you need an high reknown for master crafter ?

Lucius Valerius said:

You do, yes - you need to be at least Respected to get something of Exceptional Craftsmanship, and Distinguished to have something of Master Craftsmanship, as shown on page 140 of the rulebook.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

*sigh* forgot that bit. in any case - its amazing what you can do with 20 requisition points and a load of renown

Well, I made a Blood Angel Tactical Marine and to stay in character with the background I wrote for the CE Edition rollcall I took Signature Wargear as well. (Yep, I bought a normal book as well for gaming)

Since the tac. marine already starts out with a Bolter with Fire Selector and 20req points worth of special ammo each mission I used the 20req from Signature Wargear to add a Telescopic Sight for 6, a Silencer for 3, a Dipole Maglock for 5, and I spent 5 points on Stalker Rounds so I get 1 clip every mission to start with. Total; 19 points.

Together with the Calculating Personal Demeanour and the Fury Like Lightning (very agile) background for my armour the character rounded out well into my earlier written background, which was done even before I got the book. ^^

The plan is to slowly turn him into a sniper, gradually upgrading the Signature Wargear to Master and beyond.

I'm disappointed by the absolute absence of any upgrade for melee. There are plenty of things that could have been incorporated from previous manuals..