Common Item: Shotgun
http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Shotgun
""Any Phase: When using Shotgun in Combat, all 6's rolled count as 2 successes.""

Skill from Dunwich: Grapple
http://www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Grapple
""When you make any Fight check, add +1 to each die you roll for the purposes of checking for successes (i.e., a roll of 3 becomes a 4, etc.)""

Question...

The special effect of the shotgun, it is ONLY when I get a 6 on the dice... or I also get double success when obtaining 5 on the dice?

mentorius said:

I'm pretty sure there's a proto-FAQ ruling saying that it has to be a physical six. I'm not at home right now. Tibs?

Avi_dreader said:

I would also read it as only physical 6s rolled. Also, grapple says ...when you make any fight check... not a combat check. I may be wrong, but that suggests Grapple can't be used in combat (this is different to skills that give +1 to your fight skill). Anyone know?

Read the manual. All combat checks are fight checks.

There are special types of checks, evade checks, combat checks, and spell checks. The back page of the manual deals with these in short form, I think.

Combat checks are a special kind of Fight checks, so yes, I would say a shotgun in conjunction with Grapple do allow you to get two successes when a 5 is rolled

Hannibal Rex said:

right, it's stuff that only give bonuses to combat checks that can't be used for fight checks. Had it backwards

zealot12 said:

I would have said that too, but I vaguely recall there being a ruling against that in the proto-FAQ. Again, Tibs?

Not Tibs, but that's what I recall being said as well, only natural 6s.

My group decided pretty early on that if you add +1 to the 5s using Grapple, then you have to do the same to the 6s, too. Meaning they all become 7s and don't count as two successes. :-)

So if using Grapple with Shotgun, you have to decide if you're going to accept the 5s or the 6s as double successes BEFORE you roll. :-)

I'm pretty sure it was ruled that only natural 6's count as two successes. But if you want to allow grapple to turn a 5 into a double success 6, then feel free. Just remember, a 6 with grapple now becomes a 7, which is not a double success, since the card says only 6's rolled count as two successes.

Update: I just got double ninja-ed on this posting.

Let me consult the FAQ of the Three Fates...

Q: If I have Grapple (Skill) and am using the Shotgun (Common Item) [AH], does a die roll of 5 count as two successes?
A: No, only natural 6s count.

I like this ruling. Not only does it prevent the Shotgun from unnecessary bloating, but it also sets the precedence that the Dunwich "result +1" skills don't interact negatively with the Kingsport "re-roll all 1" skills.

As an addendum to Stenun's comment, naturally since a die can't go above 6, a roll of 6 also means 6, not 7. This is important because the rules do not say that a 7 counts as a success, and the idea that Grapple could give you a 7 would make Grapple worthless.

Tibs said:

I don't see why a 6 can't become a 7. No, a 6-sided die can't naturally roll a 7 but so what?

Stenun said:

Back in the day when I played Space Marine (www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/4001/space-marine ), there were sometimes modifiers that you had to roll 7+, 8+ or even 9+ on a D6 to hit. 7+ was done by getting a 6, then rerolling, looking for 4+, 8 needed 5+ on the reroll and 9 needed another 6.

Stenun said:

Because of what I said about it. It can be a 7 if you also choose to identify a 7 as a success.

Stenun said:

For the same reason no roll can go negative. If we accept that a 6 becomes a 7 because the rules say it can't, then we also have to say that a 7 isn't even a success because it's not a 5 or a 6 as the rules state.

Unless you define six as the "roof", ie.e the biggest possible roll on one die. Then a rol on a single die can never exceed six, in which case 6+1 will remain 6.

I think the argument that 6 + 1 = 7 = no double from the shotgun is a solid argument to the case that the grapple skill and shotgun does not allow double successes on a 5 or 6.

I can't believe we're having this argument... Whether you can roll a seven on a six sided die. I mean, really.

So the easiest way to answer this would be to simply clarify the shotgun - any success is a "hit", but only a "natural" six is worth double.

So any bonus to the dice makes a success more likely, but only rolling a "natuaral" six gives double hits.

Yeah, I believe the best way to consider grapple+shotgun is this. 4s and 5s that are rolled are successes, but only 6s rolled count as double-hits.