Hi all.

After reading about the concept behind Magah Birds + 70-Steps, etc - and hearing how effective it can be, I attempted to construct a deck containing those cards, and operating about that general theme (quicker win in early-game, with control cards from Hastur and Agency to stem enemy defenders).

I don't want the deck to be "the most cut-throat" possible - since I am using it in friendly games - but I would like it to be more consistent than it has been in my solo testing (against various other decks I've made since discovering this game about 1.5 months ago).

I should mention I currently have access to MOST of the expansions and asylum packs, excepting the earlier out of print ones (Mountains of Madness, Ancient Horrors, Spawn of the Sleeper, and Antediluvian Dreams - can't find this one for some reason !). I ordered a 2nd Core Set, on the advice of some players here and on BGG site that mentioned many of the strongest cards for each faction can be found in the Core Set, except you only get ONE of each - meaning much less consistency in those good cards turning up. By getting additional Core Sets, you can increase the chance of finding those key cards when you need them. Lastly...I wanted to note I have a THIRD (and final) Core Set coming as part of a big auction win (Ebay) I managed a week or so ago...the seller has (he said) at least 1-of EVERY set (including Mountains and Ancients Horrors !) - so I will end up with the additional Core Set Cards as well.

I mention that in case people want to suggest replacement cards such as "add another Shotgun Blast" - etc. - you can feel free to do so, knowing that (in a short while) - I actually WILL have enough of those cards to put 3x of each (if recommended) into the deck.

To Recap:

Theme - 70-Steps + Magah Birds - early presence / control. Supporting cards like Power Drain // Agoraphobia // Shotgun Blast, etc - to defeat enemy early-game defenders and allow me to access the stories without much resistance.

* Note - I don't want the deck to be SOLELY Steps-Birds focused...and mainly am looking for ways to improve it such that even if I got neither of those cards on my opening hand, I'd be able to still lay out characters and contest early stories with my opponent. In other words, I don't want to craft the deck so that it's a "one trick pony", if I can avoid it and make it more balanced / fun - even if that "combo" doesn't come up for me every game. *

Current Cards in Deck :

Hastur Cards-

3-Magah Birds, 2-Stealthy Byakhee, 2-Victoria Glasser, 3-Victoria's Protege, 2-Demon Lover, 1-Byakhee Servant, 1-Swooping Byakhee, 3-Nightstalkers, 2-Crazed Arsonist, 2-The Thing Behind You

2-Cavern of Flame, 3-Seventy Steps, 2-Agoraphobia, 2-Power Drain, 2-Blind Submission

Agency Cards-

3-Endless Interrogation, 1-Behind Bars, 2-Shotgun Blast, 2-Shotgun (attachment), 2-A Small Price to Pay, 2-Herman Mulder (Unique 1-cost Agency guy that has great stats for 1-cost, but goes insane when 6-or-more characters are on the table), 2-Peeler, 2-Unorthodox Psychologist, 2-Hired Muscle, and 2-Short Fuse.

Neutral Cards-

3-Moonbeast Captain

==============

Total Cards: 55 ( I would welcome ideas on what to prune to get this down to the preferred 50-card number, and also would like specific feedback on if you think I need more Agency cards to balance out the Hastur ones ? - or what to put in or take out, etc. Currently the mix is 32-Hastur, 20-Agency, 3-Neutral. I find the Moonbeast Captains are great since you get a huge value for 2-cost, and I usually have a Cavern or the Steps out to allow me the reduced-cost payment for them )

* - I also have been feeling....disappointed with the way the Hastur character mix is working for me. Any ideas on better Hastur creatures to use would be welcome ...and I think Herman Mulder will probably go too, as he's too unreliable a card - great if he comes in your opening hand...but less so if it's on Turn-4 or 5, when you and opponent have 5 or 6 guys on the table (and Mulder would get trapped in his insanity loop). Any better ideas for a replacement would also be helpful ! *

Thanks to anyone who can chime in with suggestions here.

Some suggestions:

1. Why Herman Mulder if Paul Lemond is so much better? Especially that with MB you're going to (or at least want to) sport a lot of characters from the get go.

2. You don't want Peeler with just 2 attachments in your deck, there are better cards you could use, like Undercover Security.

3. Short Fuse is too expensive and not necessary, better to get Dynamite (which would also help Peeler a lot if you plan on sticking to him).

4. Swooping Byakhee and Nightstalkers aren't really optimal in my opinion. Need more Byakhee Servants for sure (it's the best character Hastur has to offer, use it!).

5. Think about cheap utility characters like Performance Artist and Agency Medic (the sole purpose of Birds+Steps combo is to put into play more characters than the opponent and faster than he can).

6. I usually find Bringer of Fire better than Thing Behind You. Even if you won't be able to bring second copy into the game, he sure is going to attract opponent's attention and relieve your other characters.

7. You want Scotophobia in your deck, it's great for ruining people's mood/plans.

8. Pick out the best cards of the ones you want in your deck and get 3 copies of each (except uniques), then mow it down to 50 cards which should leave you only with the strongest picks.

1 - I can throw Paul in - I have two of them, and like I said - Herman is fairly disappointing for me - in THEORY he's great if he comes out Turn-1..but that doesn't always happen, and after that he's crap - and Insane !

2- Peeler is there because he is cheap - and has combat (with Hastur cards seem to frequently lack). The attachment thing was/is a side-consideration to me. I can substitute others if you think they are better.

3- Undercover Security is good...but aren't they Steadfast (2-Agency Icons) - AND - Heroic ? - meaning, how would they coexist with Victoria Glasser ? (Villainous) - and the fact they need 2-Agency Resources to be on the table means I would need to consider boosting the total number of Agency cards ? - yes or no - to ensure enough resources early-on that I could actually play them ?

4- As I noted - regarding Dynamite - it comes in Antediluvian Dreams expansion...which is impossible to find in stores or on Ebay (USA) currently - for some reason. You can find the ones before it ...and the ones after it...but not it -weird. I will consider Dynamite though, when I finally get the card(s). Shotgun is sort of my fill-in, until I can put Dynamite in though, and Shotgun lets me direct the wound, without killing off my own character.

5- Why the hate on Short Fuse ? - 3 for 7-Wounds seems powerful to me, and is strong anti-big-guy deterrent ? Yes - its expensive if you're killing Cultists with it...but blowing away Hastur, Lord of Carcosa with one card (late game) - if it gets to that - is hard to argue against, no ?

6- I have another Byakhee Servant (2 Core Sets - I think that's where they appear) - so can add him in. Nightstalker seemed good since it invokes an extra Terror Struggle, and has decent icons for 3-cost (most of Hastur characters seem pretty crappy to me ? - is that true, or just my impression - ?).

7- I can add Performance Artist and Agency Medic - x2 of each...what should I for them though ?

8- Bringer of Fire I have none of - but will get at least 1-of when my big auction win arrives. I'll be sure to add him into the mix when able to.

9- I can toss 2-Scotophobias in, easy. What am I dropping for them ?

10- How many total characters do I want in this type of deck ? Lately I've been going 28-30 in my decks, with the rest Support / Location / Event - mixes.

Rosh87 said:

Ad. 2.
I find it not really worth it if you're dropping a character that has useful traits/abilities and then not use them. You could consider some of these cards instead:
Unorthodox Psychologist - gives you the precious I icon and the ability to look at opponent's hand.
Government Exorcist - he makes your life easier on terror.

Museum Security - same icons as Peeler but more skill.
Monster Hunter - a bit more expensive but again with very useful ability.

Ad. 3.
Yes, I forgot about that. Consider one of the above options then.

Ad. 5.
It's cluttering your hand most of the time. And with Birds+Steppes deck (which is your goal, isn't it?) you want to win games fast, not bring them into late-game. You can also consider getting Beneath the Burning Sun instead, this card has potential for destroying enemy cards and give a passive boost to C for your Agency characters.

Ad. 6.
Aye, BS is from Core. Hastur is historically known to have rather poor characters (almost all of them have T&A icons and not really anything else).

Ad. 8.
With Bringer you want 3 in your deck or none. He only works when there's more than 1 copy on the table.

Ad. 10.
I tend to go with 28-character and 22-other cards. 29/21 or 26/24 would work too.

I dropped Undercover Security because of the issues you pointed out. I traded him for Unorthodox Psychologist. I wanted to keep the Investigation icons around.

Short fuse is okay since you are short on the other cheap removal, but once you've got three core sets and can get three of each of the cheap Agency/Hastur removal you should it. If you are particularly fond of it, play it, just don't hesitate to resource it early.

And you have broken the first rule of consistency: 50 CARDS ONLY.

get rid of Shotgun and Peeler and work on the rest. It will be much more consistent just by getting down to 50 cards.

Chevee

You probably didn't notice, but I actually have/had 2-Unorthodox Psychologists in the deck already (see listing in original post) - but I went ahead and added a 3rd one last night - and it seems okay so far.

On more anecdotal note.... I playtested (solo games) - several matches last night with this Hastur / Agency mix - against my Pure Yog-Sothoth deck...and another Shub-deck (mono as well, with some neutrals, including 2 of Mr. Jim Black's dreaded Descendant of Eibon ) ...and it keeps losing. The one game it was pretty close, with the final going 3-2 to the Shubs....but still...a few problems continue to be apparent.

In theory, the deck is meant to be fast...and able to get into stories quickly and score early success tokens, whether or not 70-Steps hits the table. The problem, in practice, is all the characters are crappy...more or less...and keep getting stymied by enemy monsters on Turns-2 or 3.

The Shub deck is particularly brutal...featuring a strong Night theme that I tried to incorporate. I have cards like Twilight Cannibal, Ghoulish Hag, Ghoulish Predator...The Night ....etc....and 3-copies of The Setting Sun, and 2-copies of Terrors in the Dark to make sure I get the Night effects when I need them. I also have 2-copies of Shuggob, Ghoul Sage - who has the same "It is Night" effect - when he enters play.

What usually happens is something like this - let's assume I even get 70-Steps or Magah's in my starting hand, and even get 1st Turn.

HAgency Turn-1 : lay a resource.... play 1 Agency Medic (1-resource tapped), pay 1 put out Performance Artist. Pay-2 (1) - and lay 70-Steps.

Shub Deck Turn-1 : lay a resource... pay 1 and put Priestess of Bubastis down. pay 2 and put out a Ghoulish Predator. Sure they are exhausted, but just wait for next round.

HAgency Turn-2 : lay another resource... play an Unorthodox Psych.... all three characters go in for stories.... score 2-Tokens on 2 of them and 3- on the one that the Psych goes to.

Shub Deck Turn-2 : Refreshes everything...draws...lays another resource. Plays "The Setting Sun" with 1-Resource Domain. Exhausts the Priestess to reduce cost of next Shub character by 1.... able to lay out Ghoulish Hag for 2. Pays 3 and lays out Descendant of Eibon (ughhh....).

Just sits there and defends with his Ghoulish Predator.

HAgency Turn-3 : This is where things start to break down.. unless I draw a Shotgun Blast or Small Price to Pay...I am stuck in a situation where I have three puny characters, against an increasingly large enemy force with STRONG Icons and high skill values (none of the guys out so far in this example for HAgency even have Skill-3....).

My guys played this turn will still come into play Exhausted from the Steps...so there is a question of if it's helping or hurting me at this point onwards...the next turn (for the enemies), I'm going to be facing a wave of powerful creatures I have no reasonable way to stop. Even if I ...let's say...got a Shotgun Blast this turn...and killed off a Hag or Descendant...since it's Night, he can play the Hag again from Discard Pile...and if it's Descendant...he can always come back later in the game...plus the next turn the Shubs are just as likely to lay Hungry Dark Young and then a Forest Sister or something else with low cost from their hand, as part of Hungry Young's special effect....

It basically becomes a war of attrition that I cannot win since I cannot deal enough damage to these sorts of enemies with my "direct damage" cards (many of them like Twilight Cannibal or Ghoulish Predator // Albino Goat Spawn, etc - actually have Toughness as well !) .... or in actual Icon Combat (since the mix of guys I have seems quite weakish - in terms of "punch") - to stem the ever-increasing swarm of monsters on Shubs side of the table.

Also, since so many of their guys have Terror Icons...things like Agoraphobia don't work on them. And it's a lot of things going right if I manage to get a Scotophobia - AND - Agoraphobia in the same hand, at just the needed time to bounce something critical back to hand.

- By Turn-4 onwards, the Shub deck is hammering my HAgency boys with Y'Golanac, The Night, and / or - The Black Pharoah, Nyarlathotep ! There is just nothing I can do at that point.

Current Conclusions: - the Deck can win....but only if it gets both Magah Birds - AND - 70-Steps in the opening hand....AND wins the First Turn coin-flip // roll-off . . . absent that, it seems to be lacking something critical (at least against strong monster-type enemy decks).

Night-themed Shub decks you should be able to counter by adding Beneath the Burning Sun to your deck. It's cost 1 card that destroys all Night cards, makes Day and adds additional C icon to your Agency characters. All you could really wish for as Day also stops the Ghouls from comitting to stories.

Just make sure you don't play your BtBS before he plays his Night cards. You want to keep it in your hand and counter. And if you think that the Night-themed deck is scary, you should really see some Mi-Go pwnage. This guys can get pretty scary pretty fast.

Hmmm.....I'll look at "Beneath the Burning Sun" - then - which will be funny...since I'll be designing a counter .....to my own (other) deck ! - but that's good, as it should carry through to other games against Night-themed opponents.

Any thoughts on "Flanking Maneuver" as an addition for enemy creature destruction ? - it would be handy when up against enemies with multi-wounds, which Shotgun Blast and Small Price to Pay - cannot handle (outright) - ?

And what would you suggest is "the right makeup" - for Agency Characters in this mix ? - if we used your 28-Character concept ...14-Hastur, 14-Agency ?

3- Unorthodox Psychologist

3- Undercover Security ?

3- Museum Security ?

3- Hired Muscle ? (3-Combat, Toughness+1)

2- Agency Medic or 2- Paul Lemond ?

-

(current cards I can utilize for events, etc - based on my total numbers of each, in stock)

3-Behind Bars , 2-Shotgun Blasts, 2-Short Fuse, 2-Beneath the Burning Sun, 2-A Small Price to Pay, 3-Flanking Maneuver..... ?

First of all, I've just re-read the game report you posted and one thing struck me. Why didn't you sac your PA to cancel PoB ability and thus delaying GH or something else for one turn?

But back to your most recent question:

In dual-faction decks I usually try to spread the cards equally (so I don't have to worry about not having key resources when I need them most).

For Agency I'd suggest:

2 - Paul Lemond

3 - Unorthodox Psychologist

3 - Government Exorcist (if you can get your hands on him, otherwise get Museum Security or Hired Muscle here)

3 - Undercover Security (if steadfast will hurt you too much during test runs, just get one of the above suggestions here or swap it for the medic)

3 - Monster Hunter (he's in Core)

3 - Behind Bars

2 - Shotgun Blast

2 - Small Price to Pay

2 - Beneath the Burning Sun

2 - Flanking Maneuver

As your collection of cards increases you want to increase SB, SPtP and maybe BtBS to 3 copies at the expense of FM.

Flanking Maneuver is a nice card, but I wouldn't use it too much as it's non-AO restriction makes it much less useful (as it's usually the AO characters that get invul or toughness).

You've been quite helpful here, Manitou, and I thank you.

* regarding the Performance Artist, the reason I didn't sac her to block the Priestess of Bubastis, was it seemed (in my mind) a waste of a card and a good ability - to use her for that capacity, since Priestess could just do it again next round, and - in theory - the Shub's could just lay something else - IE - they didn't NEED the Priestess effect to get stuff out (they had other units on the board at that point) - or in hand ready to come down.

Also - here's another Timing question.....when "exactly" do you trigger the Disrupt effect for P-Artist.....would it be:

1.) - At the instant your opponent says, "I'll exhaust the Priestess of Bubastis to..." (Do it RIGHT then before they say or play anything further...)

OR

2.) - (the opponent continues) - "...to lay out this Slavering Gug for only 4-cost, instead of the usual 5..." (Do it right NOW...as he's trying to place the Gug card onto the board. The Disrupt resolves and he must put the Gug back in his hand until the next turn when he has 5-Resources out, or tries the Bubastis Short Cut again.

Which of these is the "correct" way to play the Disrupt effect ? Though both result in the Slavering Gug not being played this turn (in this example), ONE of the ways allows you to actually see what card the opponent was planning on playing, so you can (sort of) plan against it your next round.... but the other way does not, and you have no clue if you were stopping a Forest Sister, or Y'Golanac the Obscenity - from actually popping out with less resource cost than normal, thanks to the Priestess of Bubastis' ability. . .

Hopefully you or the others can clarify this timing procedure for me !

The first answer is correct. You don't get to see what opponent is playing as this are 2 separate actions for him and you're cancelling just one of them.

Also, the enemy could just as well do it like that:

1) Use PoB action.

2) Play any number of Shub non-character or non-Shub cards.

3) Put into play a Shub character at a reduced cost.

Basically, PoB action is kind of "working in the background" after it has been used and waiting even entire phase if necessary until it meets the trigger requirement.

And it is usually a good idea to stop PoB earlier in the game if you can, especially when your deck doesn't have many big chars as you're delaying your enemy which buys you necessary time to build numbers.

I think on the Priestess ....her wording actually says that when she's exhausted for her "reduction in cost" effect that it MUST be used on the NEXT Shub character that you play.... but other than that, I agree with your sentiments on her, possibly disrupting her effect to slow up the enemy at the early stages, etc.... so all good stuff there.

I also wanted to tell you that I had big success with the modifications you suggested. The Flanking Maneuvers were quite helpful in my playtesting last night, destroying a Terror of the Tides from my Cthulhu / Yog deck - which is pretty strong, I feel - and a Descendant of Eibon, against the annoying Shub deck that I'd mentioned in the earlier posts.

I also found Beneath the Burning Sun totally hosed all the Ghoul crap they had been hitting me with....quite a good addition, and the added boost to Agency Combat power is also helpful.

* a question on this - if Paul Lemond is out....normally he has ZERO icons...but with Beneath the Burning Sun he gets 1-Combat, just like other Agency guys, correct ? If so...then later on when he copies a Deep One, for instance, and gains their 2-Combat, 1-Arcane...he should still get to keep the additional (starting) +1 Combat from the BtBSun card....for a total of 3-Combat, 1-Arcane....correct ?

One funny thought I had was....has Night-Shift Security made Hired Muscle totally irrelevant ?

Both cards have 3-Cost....3-Combat...and Toughness+1.... but Night-Shift Security has an additional special rule // effect of:

If it is Night, each character you control cannot be chosen as the only target of an event card.

So...Hired Muscle seems replaceable in almost any deck since the cards are the same...but H-Muscle lacks this additional effect (even if it rarely happens or you lack Night cards of your own) ..?

PoB text does say that the reduction MUST be on the NEXT SHUB CHAR you play. It however ignores all the other card types (ie: not being shub character) you play before meeting the trigger requirements.

PL gets an additional C icon for each BtBS, regardless of copying icons, yes.

The difference between this cards shows in their subtype (HM is Criminal). It doesn't matter in the current card pool but you never know if there will be any cards added that trigger off the Criminal subtype. Not taking it into account indeed NSS is better than HM.

Ahh - great to hear back from you and thanks for the mini-clarifications within your reply. Also - good point on NSS - relative to HM. I kept looking at him and thinking...wait a sec...he's just the same as this guy (HM)....but he's got this nifty "if it is Night" ability tacked on...for free (costs the same) !

The only way it could possibly be "bad" for you, is if you had some kind of Event cards that "single-targeted" your characters...and thus you would not be able to use those cards if it was also Night... AND NSS was in play. But it seems like an awful lot of "possibles" - to worry too much about. Plus I don't think I know of many "Positive / Enhancement" type of event cards that are "single target" - and target YOUR characters...that it would even be an issue.

Seems like good defense against something like my Shub deck that tries to make it Night for all the Ghoulies to come out...