tkis said:

I look forward to it ;_;

Shaun said:

OK, I'm still confused on this one. I understand that the Tactical Marine's Tactical Expertise is an ability that allows him to let Marines from other Chapters to benefit from his Chapter Squad mode abilities, whether or not he is the leader. I understand that, in the absence of such an ability, the normal rules mean that only Marines from the same Chapter can benefit from Squad Mode abilities from that Chapter. Got it.

However, there is no "suggestion". On page 228, under Oath Taking, it specifically says:

"In addition to the listed Codex Squad Mode abilities, the Kill-Team will also have access to their leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities."

This certainly appears to be an ability that allows member of different Chapters to use a Chapter Ability. Is it?

Also, a confusion arises from Ross Watson's answer. He says, "Any member of the squad is able to activate Chapter squad mode abilities." This would mean that the Space Wolf could activate the Ultramarine's Chapter Squad Mode ability, even though he could not benefit from it (unless it was an Ultramarine Tactical Marine, in which case the Space Wolf could activate it, and benefit from it). I don't think that's what he meant, but it's what he said.

I presume that the actual rule is that any Marine can activate Codex Squad Mode abilities, and their own Chapter Abilities. Any marine can benefit from Codex Squad Mode abilities (when in squad mode) and Chapter Squad Mode abilities from their own Chapter. Certain abilities allow a Marine to benefit from a Chapter Squad Mode ability even when the Marine is not from that Chapter. Tactical Expertise (from the Tactical Marine) is such an ability.

Is that correct?

The original question still is there, though.

Does the rule on pg. 228 giving the Kill-Team access to their leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities allow them to benefit from the leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities?

Brother-Sergeant Cloten said:

The kill-team but not the entire kill-team in this case. Only those of the same chapter or if the leader is a Tac and passes his Command test.

Brother-Sergeant Cloten said:

I think RW's answer just means that it's not just the team leader who can activate an ability. I have an Ultra Tac and an Ultra Dev in my group. If the Tac is the team leader, the Dev can also activate the Lead By Example ability, not just the Tac because he's leader.

BTW, I have posed some questions about squad mode to FFG and as soon as I have any answers, I'll post them here.

Alex

Techmarines, under the special ability heading get something called "Mechanicus Implants Trait" For the life of me I cannot find that in the trait section. Can someone point me to the page or is this something for errata?

xandarian2 said:

p133, the brown box details what they have.

Also, weapon ranges are inconsistent between equipment section, and combat section. The combat section is correct as per the DH errata, but it should probably be included in the DW errata.

Further clarifications:

"> Hi!
>
> I have three rules questions:
>
> 1. Which psy powers can be dodged?

Unless otherwise noted, psychic powers can be dodged like any other
attack. At the GM's discretion, certain psychic powers that have
invisible effects or are otherwise too large to evade cannot be dodged.

> 2. There is still a lot of confusion on the forum about how squad
> mode abilities work. BT's Holy Vengeance, for example: if I pay for
> it once, it lasts until my next turn. Does this squad mode ability
> end with the start of my next turn? If so, can it be re-activated in
> the same fight (as it is non-sustained)? If so, do I have to pay the
> Cohesion cost all over again?

Unless otherwise noted, (once the Cohesion Cost has been paid)
sustained Squad Mode Abilities can be used freely for the duration of
the mission and non-sustained Squad Mode Abilities can be used freely
for the duration of the combat. Certain specific abilities may have a
different duration (such as Holy Vengeance). Once a Squad Mode ability
has ended (due to the description of its power or if it has reached
the end of the mission/combat for sustained/non-sustained), the
Cohesion Cost must be paid again in order to activate the ability again.

> 3. Also, there's lack of clarity which squad mode powers can be
> active simultaneously. Mr. Watson wrote that there cannot be
> different sustained abilities active simultaneously. How about non-
> sustained abilities though? Can they be mixed? Does the restriction
> only apply to 'no more than one sustained ability'?

The restriction applies only to Sustained Abilities."

Actually, it's just as I thought it would be. Still it's good to have conformation.

Alex

Below are questions and answers I submitted to try clarifying some of the loopholes/ambiguities in Squad Mode powers. Some of these have already been posted by others, but I'm posting the response as-is. Sorry for the awful formatting. Forum fail.

Ross's answers in bold.

Per page 219, Squad mode powers are only require the player to pay the Cohesion cost once per Mission. Sustained powers last for the remainder of the Mission. Non-sustained powers last the duration of the current combat encounter.

My questions:

General:
1. Can players that are not the leader activate their Chapter Squad Modes, or is the group limited to the powers of their oath and leader's Chapter?

The group is limited to the Codex Squad mode abilities of their Kill-team's Oath. Any Battle-Brother in the Kill-team may activate his Chapter Squad Mode ability; it does not need to be the leader.

2. If the kill team is separated for whatever reason, can it form multiple Squads for the purpose of Squad mode powers?

Yes.

3. Player A and B are in Support Range and currently in Solo mode. Player A wants to join Squad mode, so he makes a Cohesion test as a Free Action and succeeds. Is Player B in Squad mode for free, or does he have to test as well? What if Player B goes bef ore Player A in initiative and already used all his Reactions? If Player B goes after Player A, does Player A count as being in Squad mode for his turn?

If Player A succeeds in his test, the entire Kill-team has the option to enter Squad Mode. Only one test is needed. After the test is successful, the Kill-team is in Squad Mode for all purposes (including using Reactions).

Sustained Powers:
4. Can the power be dropped and later re-activated?

I presume you are talking about Sustained Squad Mode abilities (powers relates to psychic powers).

Yes. Once you have paid the Cohesion point cost, the power may be used freely (including dropping it and activating it again) for the duration of the Mission.

5. If a sustained power is overridden by another player activating a Squad mode, can the first player continue sustaining his power on his turn, causing it to reactivate without cost?

Yes. See the above answer. The power may be used freely for the duration of the mission.

6. Player A and B are in Squad mode. Player A is sustaining a Squad power. On his turn Player B drops to Solo Mode. Does Player A default to Solo Mode and deactivate the Squad power?

A single lone Space Marine cannot be in Squad Mode. If the number of Space Marines in Squad Mode drops to 1, then every Space Marine in the Kill-team is in Solo Mode, and Squad Abilities cease functioning.

7. Player A and B are in Squad mode and from different chapters. Neither benefit from Tactical Expertise. Can they both Sustain their relevant Chapter powers? What if one is using a Chapter power and the other a Codex power?

Chapter Squad Mode Abilities can be sustained regardless of who is benefiting from them (with the caveat that there must be at least two Space Marines in Squad Mode!).

Non-Sustained:

8. Page 219 says these powers last for one combat encounter. Several powers, such as Fury of Sanguinius indicate they last until the start of the player's turn. Does that mean that the power can be reactivated without cost every turn for the remainder of the encounter, or is it once per combat encounter?

Unless otherwise indicated, Non-sustained abilities last for one combat encounter. Individual Squad Mode Abilities (such as Fury of Sanguinius) have a different duration if so stated in their descriptions.

9. Per 219 again, do you have to pay for the non-sustained power activation every combat that you wish to use it in, or are they once per mission powers?

Per combat.

10. If Player A activates a non-sustained power does it deactivate a Sustained power used by Player B? What if Player B is sustaining a Chapter power that doesn't effect Player A?

No.

11. If Player A activates a non-sustained power does it deactivate a non-Sustained power used by Player B that is currently active? What if Player B is sustaining a Chapter power that doesn't effect Player A?

No.

12. For non-Sustained Squad modes, such as Tank Buster, can the the Squad Action be performed on every turn of the current combat without re-incurring the cost of the Ability? This is similar to #8, but these type of powers do not specify a duration.

Yes. Unless stated otherwise, (once the Cohesion point cost has been made) Non-sustained Squad Mode Abilities may be used freely for the duration of the combat.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

You're welcome! Thank you for enjoying the game!

Follow up:

I find the answer to #3 interesting. Would have saved me a Fate point in my current game.

The clarification on Sustained Squad Modes and deactivation/reactivation is nice. The clarification on non-Sustained abilities and their durations does make some abilities (like Fury of Sanguinius and the BT one) less powerful, but those were there ones that were looking quite overpowered to begin with.

Hope these are helpful to others.

Radomo said:

As per the reply to my question (see above) they can be used repeatedly though in a single combat, including Holy Vengeance - if you're willing to pay the Cohesion cost all over again.

And that makes Ultramarine Tacticals quite powerful as team leaders.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Right. But, paying the cost every turn is quite expensive. While that can be alleviated with Exemplar of Honour and other Ultramarine cheese, that's still more limiting than the interpretation that some people were proposing, which was essentially pay once for the combat and use on every turn.

Thank you very much for posting this Radomo! This is a great help! #3 is indeed interesting, and I think it requires some further clarifications:

"3. Player A and B are in Support Range and currently in Solo mode. Player A wants to join Squad mode, so he makes a Cohesion test as a Free Action and succeeds. Is Player B in Squad mode for free, or does he have to test as well? What if Player B goes bef ore Player A in initiative and already used all his Reactions? If Player B goes after Player A, does Player A count as being in Squad mode for his turn?

If Player A succeeds in his test, the entire Kill-team has the option to enter Squad Mode. Only one test is needed. After the test is successful, the Kill-team is in Squad Mode for all purposes (including using Reactions). "

What happens in the above situation if Player A wants to go into Squad Mode and makes the Cohesion test, but Player B refuses to go into squad mode? As per response to question 6 from Radomo's post: "A single lone Space Marine cannot be in Squad Mode. If the number of Space Marines in Squad Mode drops to 1, then every Space Marine in the Kill-team is in Solo Mode, and Squad Abilities cease functioning." Does that mean that Player A will be unable to go into Squad Mode at all until Player B changes his mind or a different team member (let's call him Player C) agrees to go into Squad Mode with Player A?

Or, to look at this issue from a different angle, what if Player A wants to go into Squad Mode and makes the Cohesion test, Player B wants to stay in Solo Mode, but by virtue of Cohesion Test being made Player B is now forced to go into Squad Mode? The wording of the response to #3 suggests to me that the kill-team is in Squad Mode automatically upon a single Cohesion test being made.

Why am I asking this? Because this clarification (#3 and #6) makes the Squad Mode activation and sustainability far more dependent on player consent and cooperation, and opens up many opportunities for douchebaggery if/when some players want to be in Squad Mode and others don't.

P.S. I think if there are three team members in Support Range and at least 2 of them are in Squad Mode, the third one can opt out of Squad Mode without shafting the entire team, at least that's the way I read it.

Razorboy said:

That's why the decisive stat is called Cohesion. And douchebags should have no business being part of the Deathwatch. If they can't cooperate with other battle- brothers , they deserve to be sent home.

Alex

I'm glad to see that the Squad Mode stuff is starting to take a usable form (IMO, the stuff in the book was about as clear as mud). I think the errata for it will take up a good chunk of a page, and the FAQ entries over a page.

Razorboy said:

My read is that, once someone makes a successful Cohesion test, the entire team is in Squad mode. On your initiative, you can out of Squad mode as a free action, so there's really no penalty for temporarily joining it when someone makes a test. In the example case, Player B would be in Squad mode until his next turn, when he could then drop if need be.

One further question that is brought up is, if Player A makes a Cohesion test and fails, can Player B then make the test as well, or do they all have to wait one Turn to join Squad mode (until Player A's action completes)? Only Player A would lose their action, of course, with the others free to act in Solo mode, if that is the case.

ak-73 said:

I did say "player" consent, not "character" consent. I don't believe for a moment that my friends for whom I run Deathwatch would stoop to this, but I just want to point the potential for abuse. Personally I'm with you one hundred percent, a player who does this is either a douchebag or seriously doesn't understand the point of the game, or most likely both.

"My read is that, once someone makes a successful Cohesion test, the entire team is in Squad mode. On your initiative, you can out of Squad mode as a free action, so there's really no penalty for temporarily joining it when someone makes a test. In the example case, Player B would be in Squad mode until his next turn, when he could then if need be."

You're right, however there are several Solo Modes that last a limited set of rounds and can be activated only once per combat: Blood Frenzy, Stoic Defence, Thunder's Call (depending on how you read it). So if Player B was using one of those powers and now he gets kicked into Squad Mode and loses the benefit of those powers, and then drops into Solo Mode he's screwed because he's already used his once-per-combat Solo Mode. I think there should be some clarification or leeway on reactivating Solo Modes after being forced to go into Squad Mode.

As a spin-off of this issue, what happens if a Storm Warden Marine activates Thunder's Call, marks the enemy, and is then dropped into Squad Mode which ends the benefits of Solo Mode? Would the target still suffer -10 to attacks and other penalties from Thunder's Call?

Radomo said:

Note that he says "option" not must. Given that, I don't read the second sentence as meaning that a test to enter squad mode results in everyone being pushed into squad mode (and if they want solo, have to switch back out). Also, I would imagine players should be allowed to determine who will enter squad mode before the cohesion test is made, preventing any sort of "I'm going to try and enter squad mode", use an action "oh wait, nobody wants to join the squad." The same goes with squad mode abilities. I would imagine that if the majority of the team vehemently disagrees with the use of a particular power, that that power is not used (and no cohesion spent). Obviously, much of this is not in the RAW, but I think the GM should consider it their job to guide the use of squad mode in such a way to avoid problems.

Certainly, any solo mode effects should terminate as soon as the initiating player switches to squad mode. But entering squad mode should always be a choice on the part of a player.

KommissarK said:

Well, I think it is. And I also think that part of being the team leader is ensuring (ooc, if necessary) that at least one fellow pc in support range will join.

Alex

Size modifiers for individuals and hordes affect both ranged and melee to-hit modifiers.

This affects mostly page 249 which only mentions ranged. Also the to-hit modifier chart on page 247.

Ross Watson "Size modifiers count for all attacks, both ranged and melee."

RE: Two Weapon fighting.

From Ross

Any Space Marine wielding a weapon in each hand may attempt to attack
a target with both weapons.

Doing this means making two attack rolls, each at -20.

If the Space Marine has the Two Weapon Fighting Talent appropriate for
his weapons, the penalty is reduced to -10 for each attack roll.

My addendum

Meaning, without any talents, two weapon attacks are -20/-40. With Ambidextrous, as all marines have, they are -20/-20. With only TWW, it would be -10/-30.

Hordes and Pinning/Fear/etc. tests:
> Do hordes receive any modifier to these WP tests, beyond what is
> provided by any talents or traits they may have?
>
> It seems like Pinning an entire Mag 50 Horde due to a single
> Suppressive fire action or applying Fear(1) is rather powerful.
> Reading over the Fear/Pinning rules as well as the Horde section, I
> didn't see a mention of how these checks interact with Hordes.
>

Normally Hordes do not receive any modifier to WP tests against Fear
or Pinning aside from any specific Talents or Traits they may possess.

At the GM's discretion, he can add a modifier if he feels it is
appropriate to the Horde's WP for Pinning or Fear Tests.

> Squad mode & Cohesion tests:
> Per my previous set of questions answered by Ross (thanks again,
> btw), only one Cohesion test is required for the whole team to be
> considered in Squad mode.
>
> Assuming there is no active Squad, if a player fails the test,
> losing his turn to the Full Action required to join squad mode, can
> the next player simply make a Cohesion test to form a Squad, or is
> the remainder of the Kill Team forced to remain in Solo mode for
> that turn?
>

The next player can attempt to form a Squad if he wishes; there is no
limit on the number of times the Kill-team can attempt to form a Squad
(with the understanding that each character may only make one attempt
per round).

> Hordes and Flame weapons:
> What effect does a Flame weapon's ongoing fire damage have on Hordes?

It is assumed that the normal damage to a Horde's magnitude from Flame
Weapons incorporates the lingering effects of those unfortunate
members of the Horde who have been set on fire, and thus by the rules
there is no additional effect.

At the GM's discretion, he can add some additional damage to the Horde
if he believes it is appropriate to the circumstances. (also, spraying
the Horde with promethium helps!)

I have two questions about some of the answers

Question:

Hordes and Pinning/Fear/etc. tests:
Do hordes receive any modifier to these WP tests, beyond what is provided by any talents or traits they may have?

It seems like Pinning an entire Mag 50 Horde due to a single Suppressive fire action or applying Fear(1) is rather powerful. Reading over the Fear/Pinning rules as well as the Horde section, I didn't see a mention of how these checks interact with Hordes.

Answer:

Normally Hordes do not receive any modifier to WP tests against Fear or Pinning aside from any specific Talents or Traits they may possess.

At the GM's discretion, he can add a modifier if he feels it is appropriate to the Horde's WP for Pinning or Fear Tests.

I had thought that, according to page 359 of the rulebook- "Hordes may be pinned as normal (with the entire Horde making a single Willpower Test). However, Hordes gain a bonus to their Willpower tests to resist pinning equal to its Magnitude."

So hordes do gain bonuses to resist pinning, but no bonuses to resist fear?

Question:

7) Can a focus power test made for using the Force Sword’s special ability generate Psychic Phenomena / Perils of the Warp? And, can the test be made using the 3 power levels as per casting normal Psychic Powers?

Answer:

Yes, and yes.

According to the Force Weapons special abilities they get +1 damage and +1 penetration for each psy rating they possess. Also, whenever a psyker damages an opponent, he may, as a Free Action, channel psychic force and killing will into the blade. This requires a Focus Power Test using Opposed Willpower. For every degree of success, the force weapon's wielder deals an additional 1d10 Damage, ignoring the victim's Armour and Toughness Bonus...."

How does casting at the three different rating affect the free action? The damage is based off the degrees of success from the Willpower test correct? How does pushing the focus power do anything- other than cause a Psychic Phenomena? Why wouldn't a pskyer ALWAYS choose unfettered to avoid this effect?

Tidomann said:

Well, increasing or decreasing the Psy Rating, increase or decrease your chances of passing the Focus Power Test, and thus the likely number of Degrees of Success you can achieve (a Librarian with WP 50 and Psy Rating 3 who makes a Pushed Focus Power Test has an 80% chance of success, compared to the 65% chance he'd have if he only made the test Unfettered).

In my game, I've personally ruled that a character using a Force Weapon for that extra damage effect also applies his Effective Psy Rating to the blade's damage and pen (instead of just applying his basic Psy Rating), which makes things a little more of a choice (you could use the power fettered, but if you fail, the weapon will deal less damage overall, as it only benefits from half your Psy Rating)

N0-1_H3r3 said:

But no psychic phenomena and therefore no perils of the warp. Which makes it a no-brainer unless things are really darkgrim.

Alex

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight, thankyou. I forgot that psykers can add their psy rating x 5 to the focus power test. Doh!

Thanks for the quick response, and an interesting ruling on the special ruling of the force weapon. I had similar ideas- so let me know how the rule has been working in your games.

ak-73 said:

If the situation is dire enough to require the intervention of the Deathwatch, chances are that the fecal matter has already interacted with the atmosphere recycler...

A starting Librarian using his Force weapon Fettered reduces the chances of the weapon's special rule actually taking effect, and reduces how deadly that special rule can be; Pushing it increases both the chance of causing the effect and how potent it is.

Beyond that, it's a matter of player choice, as it always is when choosing how much power to unleash when making a Focus Power Test. If you feel that it's not worth the risk to do anything but Fetter a force weapon, then that's your choice.

Hi. I havent managed to find answer from book or board to small but important question. What are the heraldric colours of Storm Wardens? The picture seems to implify blue/silver but blue/white could also be possible...

-Eris- said:

Blue and silver (the colours on Fantasy Flight's logo), though in traditional heraldic terms, white and silver are regarded as the same colour, so it could be argued that you could use white in place of the silver.