panzer-attack said:

There has already been some discussion around this here .

While Razorboy is correct that there is a PRx5 bonus added on to the Willpower score for Focus Power Tests, the issue of the base difficulty for Focus Power Test is still outstanding. The general consensus is that it is +0 (Challenging) , but this is not stated anywhere in the book and does not match what the examples shown. The example are just plain confusing, and don't hold with the PRx5 example at all. For example, assuming a base +0 (Challenging) difficulty and PR of 3 (lowest possible PR for a Deathwatch Librarian) for the Unfettered Vortex of Doom example on page 186, there should be mention of a +15 modifier. The Smite example offered on page 185 is a poor choice since that specific power is modified by ranged weapon modifiers and is not resolved as a typical psychic power.

Furthermore, the description of the Power Levels and the examples provided seem to indicate that the Power Levels influence the difficulty of the Focus Power Check. For example, the Unfettered Vortex of Doom example on page 186 states, "Varis must then make a Challenging (+0) Willpower Test to manifest the power, as he is using it Unfettered." The fact that it specifically says " as he is using it Unfettered " indicates that the Unfettered Power Level has directly modified the difficulty of the check.

While most of the other errata and FAQs are troublesome and should be answered, I feel that this is one of the most important questions that needs to be addressed. Without a clear statement as to either a base overall difficulty for the Focus Power Test or an explanation of how the Power Levels influence the Focus Power Test, the Deathwatch Librarian's psychic powers have no concrete rules around how they are generated. I know I've house ruled it for the time being, and others are coming up with their own solutions, but this really shouldn't the case for such an important specialization and integral part of the game and story.

not got to psychic powers yet, but from my glance I was of the belief it is the same as the Rogue Trader Rules... Maybe there are better examples in that (not got eith book to hand so don't know).

Slightly different from Rogue trader, especially when it comes to Push levels

I get a distinct impression that the examples of using psychic powers, and the powers themselves were written separately, or perhaps at different times and do not match up. Nonetheless, a comparison with RT psychic powers wields the same system, with the difference being that RT does not mention any other modifiers to Focus Power Test other than 5XPR and bonuses from powers' descriptions. Seeing how the examples in RT actually make sense and do mention the 5XPR bonus explicitly, while not mentioning any other bonuses regardless of the power level, I'm inclined to treat all Focus Power Tests as being Challenging. Nonetheless, a clarification of this issue would be very important for both the GMs and Librarian players.

Thanks 'The Broasted'. I'm kinda glad I'm not the only one having trouble with these psychic rules, I thought I must just be being really dense! I'm not normally one to ask rules questions (a good house-rule normally suits me) but this seemed such an important mechanic of the game that I thought I'd better get it right (and it was frustrating me that it didn't seem to make sense!)

1) Unrelenting Devastation + Heavy Bolter + Metal Storm rounds. The Unrelenting Devastation states: "When firing a Heavy weapon, the Devastator Marine inflicts 1 extra point of damage to a Horde's Magnitude for every hit. If using a weapon with the Blast Quality, he instead inflicts 1d5 extra points of damage to a Horde's Magnitude (after all other hits have been applied)." A Heavy Bolter with Metal Storm rounds is considered both a Heavy weapon and a weapon with Blast (2) Quality, so which is applied in the case of Unrelenting Devastation (since it says "instead")? The Heavy quality (1 extra damage per hit), or Blast Quality (1d5 extra damage after all other hits)? If both are applied, the Heavy bolter with Metal Storm rounds is absurdly broken against Hordes with Unrelenting Devastation, as it both doubles the Magnitude damage due to hits scored, and adds 1d5 extra damage!

- Looking at this it seems fairly clear that it is the blast quality that applies. It very explicitly says "he *instead* inflilcts 1d5 extra points of damage". That "instead" suggests to me that it is 1) not stacked with the extra hit for being "Heavy" and 2) that it takes precedence if a weapon happens to have both qualities.

3) Under "Damaging a Horde" section on page 359, it says: "Weapons that inflict Explosive Damage (X) gain a bonus against Hordes, and count as having inflicted one additional hit." IMO, this is very ambiguous wording when it comes to automatic fire. For example, if I hit a horde 3 times with a bolter (explosive damage), and assuming I dealt damage with every hit, do I deal 6 points of magnitude damage (2 damage per hit * 3 hits), or do I deal 4 points of magnitude damage (1 damage per hit + 1 extra hit because of Explosive Damage)? The Explosive Damage subsection doesn't say that weapons with (X) inflict one additional Hit per hit, or whether they inflict one additional Hit in total, regardless of how many Explosive Damage shots hit.

- The fact it says the weapon inflicts one additional hit (rather than the Devastator's ability that specifically mentions 1 additional damage per hit inflicted) suggests to me that it is added after the hits due to auto fire have been totalled and only provides a single additional hit in total. So in your example 4 damage.

Rules Wording

Furious Assault (p. 119) states that If the character successfully hits his target using the All Out Attack action, he may spend his reaction to make an additional attack using the same bonuses or penalties as the original attack.

All Out Attack (p. 237) states that the character gains a +20 bonus on the next Weapon Skill test but cannot dodge or parry until the start of his next turn.

Now, Furious Assault does mention reaction, not dodge or parry, but as dodge and parry are the only listed reactions (p. 236 - Reactions definition and p. 237 - Combat Actions table 8-1) it seems to imply that All out Attack removes your reaction.

Won't be an issue in our game as the only person who can take Furious Assault is our Blood Angel Assault Marine and she either Charges in using Berserk Charge / Wings of Angels, or once in combat uses a Full Action to Lightning Attack with her paired Lightning Claws and Two Weapon(melee) to get 4 attacks and I'd run it as written anyway, it's just something about the wording that bugs me. Like maybe Furious Assault was supposed to read if a character his using a full-action attack option or something.

bmaynard said:

No different that in DH or RT whereby by lightning attack gives base 3 attacks on a full attack action, wielding a weapon in your off-hand adds another attack, and spending your reaction gives you a 5th. Some character options allow for extra reactions, in which case that means more attacks. My rank 11 Death Cultist in DH can make 5 attacks per turn as a full action which is pretty brutal with his Best Craftsmanship power fist and Ascended trait that increased his Pen by 1 on top of this.

I emailed a rules question, and got an answer in a few days (2-4?). I suggest you guys start emailing the questions, and posting the results.

Here is the URL with the form:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp

=)

On page 212, it states that 1 point of cohesion can be restored when "Any member of the Kill-team spends a Fate Point." This is not listed under the options for a fate point. Does this mean that any time a fate point is used, it has the effect of a fate point, and restores 1 cohesion? Or is it a new use for a fate point, just to restore 1 cohesion point?

Kasatka said:

Just a clarification, you cannot make an All Out Attack (hence no Furious Assault) and use the Multiple Attacks action (required for TWW and Swift/Lightning attack) at the same time, without house rules. You are limited to 4 attacks at most (3 for LA, 1 for off hand).

Radomo said:

Thanks Radomo.

I was pretty sure there was a distinct difference between All Out Attack and Multiple Attacks in the rules. Hence my original confusion. If you aren't getting a reaction anyway, it looks like there's no reason not to burn your reaction to get that second attack in. I guess what I really should have asked was are there more reactions than Dodge and Parry as those are the only 2 you're expressly forbidden in All Out Attack.

Radomo said:

Unless you are a Techmarine using the Servo-Claw to make an attack as a Reaction. Then you would get 5 attacks.

KommisarK said:

I would say that in addition to the effect the Fate Point has, it also restores 1 cohesion point.

You know I always assumed you had to spend the FP on getting the Cohesion, but this discussion raises a good question of if the intent is whenever one is used it ALSO restores the 1 cohesion. Hmmm....

Something else I noticed, under the Tyranid warrior stats page 371 it lists the devourers RoF as -/-/10, but on page 373 under the weapons summary it lists it as -/-/6.

I don't really know what would be correct there as I never really kept up with Tyranids.

And it doesn't mention that the Thunderhammer requires two hands to use is that an ommission?

kenshin138 said:

On page 171 at the bottom of the Back Banner description it says "When the kill-team's leader spends a Fate Point to restore a point of Cohesion (see page 212), he restores one bonus point of lost Cohesion if he is wearing a back banner."

Page 28 has equipment listed. All bolters (not bolt pistols) have a fire selector. Page 157 lists a fire selector (three magazines are loaded and can be switched between, apparently, as a free action limited to the beginning of the characters turn. I Would assume three (3) clips of standard ammo would come standard for bolters.

If we pick up a fire selector, then would we get three (3) clips of standard ammunition for whatever weapon we put it on? It would seem that a fire selector would be limited to a firearm, but I could see a grenade launcher or perhaps a missile launcher with one (perhaps firing over the shoulder and requiring a backpack). Could we put fire selectors on grenade launchers, or missile launchers?

Page 36 has skills listed as trained that are not marked as such on the character sheet. I think the ones omitted are dodge, and Intimidate. So those who spent XP on Dodge, or Intimidate could get an XP refund.

Page 73 has the following bit about Assault Marines, Wings of Angels, and Jump Packs. Wings of Angels (73) [Assault Marine]: (1) Twenty meters (20m) may be added to the movement rate with a successful Challenging (+0) Pilot (Personal) Test. (2) When making a Charge whilst using his Jump Pack, the Assault Marine adds an additional 1d5 Damage to any melee attacks. Charge: minimum 4m, WS +10 (238).

Page 247 lists a +10 bonus from attacking from higher ground. Would this include those attacking, and moving by Jump Pack?

Page 171 lists the abilities of a Jump Pack. One of the uses grants flyer (12) for up to a minute. Twenty (20) turns of flight is plenty. I would assume flying over opponents grants the +10 bonus from attacking from higher ground. This leads me to think of a Jump Pack as a +10 bonus to hit while in open areas.

Can you hover in place with a Jump Pack, and not use a move (half-action) in order to do so? Flyer on page 132 is implied as a superior form of Hoverer (132).

Heck putting a fire selector on any weapon just to get three times the standard clips (if that is how it works), and not need to re-load would be a huge bonus! What weapons can't you put it on?

Face Eater said:

Thunder Hammers are 1handed in the Tabletop. Most commonly seen with a Storm Shield offhand.

Thunderhammers are 1 handed in Terminator armor and generally two handed in power armor, iirc.

RULES DISCREPANCIES

Special Pysker powers are listed for Dark Angels, but it says you can't play a Dark Angel Librarian, and that they have no Psykers in their Chapter. I'm not sure what to make of that, and if it has been discussed already, I missed it.

Librarian Advances include Warp Conduit at Rank 3 as having no prerequisites, and Strong Minded at Rank 4. In the Talent descriptions, Warp Conduit is listed as having Strong Mind as a prerequisite.

Please disregard my first point, I somehow confused Black Templars with Dark Angels.

Baron Throatpunch said:

You are probably mixing up Dark Angels an Black Templars, there are only two chapters with specialty restrictions: Black emplars (Librarians, Devastators) and Space Wolves (Apothecaries)

This may seem like a stupid question, but one of my friends seem to think that powers like Blood Lance and Smite can't be dodged. Is this the case based on some of your readings in the book? He's saying that Vortex of Doom specifically said you can dodge via agility test, while the other powers do not. What does everyone think?

Veroldindir said:

Avenger is a heavy flamer and can dodged the same way a a flame weapon. Smite has to be aimed and as such isn't homing. But it could be argued that the aiming is only for acquiring the target and if successful the bolts are homing and can't be dodged. I would say it can be dodged but it's not so easy since it's an area attack. Vortex of Doom can be dodged. Blood Lance is certainly not homing and since the librarians "throws out his arm" an enemy who knows that such a psychic attack might be coming can dodge. Lesser enemies won't be able to on the first blood lance at least. DA's Hellfire can't be dodged unless the enemy knows what's coming either. SW's Living Lightning... probably homing and hard to dodge. Thunderclap can't be dodged. Crown of Lightning... can't be dodged, I'd say. Fury of the Ancients can be dodged.

Alex