- When I've completed all 10 lines in Advancement Worksheet (rear of Character Sheet) can I make other Career Advancement before changing career? Or I'm forced to change career when I've completed all 10 lines in Advancement Worksheet?!

- If I'm forced to leave career when I've completed all 10 lines in Advancement Worksheet and if -as Manual suggests- one Campaign preferibly ends when Characters have competed their 4th Career, well, after 40 experience points -usually- a Campaign ends.Well: 40 experience points mean -about- 20 sessions (thinking that every session each character gain 2 experience points).. so, my question is:

a campaign lasts for about 20 session (usually)? That means that a campaign lasts for about 5 months (computing that every month you play 4 sessions, 1 a week)?!

You pretty much have to change career once you've reached your 10 career advances unless you want to buy some non-career advances.

Bear in mind that you can spend an advance on the career completion bonus and also some on actually buying the career change, so I think it averages out at about 12 advances per career.

You don't have to end a campaign at 4 careers. Characters can advance sideways as well as upwards (ie go off and try other basic careers)

I think depending on your session length, 2 exp a session might be a bit much for a long-running campaign.

We play 4 hour sessions and I've been giving out 1 exp per session, and that seems about right, or possibly a bit too much. After 30 sessions I'm now trying to cut my exp down to 1/2 per session but my spoiled players are revolting.

My campaign has been going for over a year. We try to play once a week but we probably miss about 1 in 5 due to player availability. Also we intersperse it with other shorter campaigns with other GMs and systems, etc. So, really it's open-ended.

you need to change the math : 10 advances + 1 for Career Completion bonus. Unless you are a Reiklander, you pay a minimum of 1 Advance to change Career (up to 4) -> 11+[0-4] Advances per Career.

That excludes spending Advances as non Career Advance, which is highly unlikely over 50 Exp characters.

Also, the game ends when the GM says so, not the book

Not everyone plays once a week either

Thanks, but... I have other 2 questions about this topic:

1) Wood Elf race has only few careers available (4 or 5, I can't remember exactly now..)

That means that when a Wood Elf character has completed the few careers available, well, he has to leave the Campaign (because he has no more career available left)?!

2) In my gaming groups often happens that one character is forced to leave his current career BEFORE he wants to, beacause he has already spent all 10 Advancements but he has no completed all Career Advancement Options!

Example: Hunter has spent 4 Advancement increasing Agility (from 3 to 4), but -doing so- he has 4 advancement less to fulfill all Career Advancement Options!! So, when he has made all 10 Career Advancements he has forced to leave his career but he would like remain in that Career to fulfill all Career Advancement Options left..

That's frustrating.

How can I resolve this matter?

Galdor said:

There are lots of careers a wood elf can do. Basically any career that doesn't say human only, or dwarf only.

We play that stat advances do not count as career advances. It's a simple solution to your second point.

monkeylite said:

They're always revolting ... but now they're rebelling!

Actually a very interesting question is why not do stat advances as career advances? Also how do you find this affects the power level of your game?

The game as written is more encouraging towards buying up fortune points into your stat pool - its how 'stat raises' go smoothly post creation. Its also why people don't get ejected out of careers too early from what i can tell.

monkeylite said:

Yes, but is against Rules!!

Rulebook clearly states that Stat Advances (if Stat is one of two Career Stat) do count as career advance!!

The game was intentionally designed with more career options than you can take with your advances while in that career. I'm sure part of it is to ensure that two characters moving through the same career don't end up too similar.

Galdor said:

Sorry, I thought you wanted an out-of-rules solution to your problem with the rules. If you have a problem with the rules but don't want to play anything against the rules, then you're stuck, I'm afraid.

The rules are quite clear on this matter. If you don't like the rules (and I can see your point Galdor) you have no other option but to tweak them. Tweaking the rules won't destroy the game, it's basically necessary in almost all RPGs to get the game you want. Monkeylite's house rule should work pretty well, it's simple and nice I think.

Another option is to just allow characters to do the same career more than one time. Just call the career "Veteran <career name>" or something, allowing the switch for 0 points (but pay one for dedication), with the same career card. You won't get a new career ability, but that's the price you have to pay for specializing. Alternatively, make up new career abilities. I know this rule is used by some people, we haven't had any problems so far of this kind.

Also, I think the value of non-career advances are under-estimated. Challenge the players to be more generalists, don't always giving them opportunity to use their focus skills/abilities. If you do that right, the players will start looking for non-career abilities a lot more.

I agree with you grunt - but can't you only take 2 non-career advances per career (at least as per the rules)? That sort of severely limits your options methinks.

shinma said:

Yeah, correct! Only 2 non-career advances per career.

And yes: it's a severe limitation

Galdor said:

How is only 2 non-career advances per career a severe limitation? Since non-career advances cost more than career advances in xp, if you need more than 2, you're probably better off transitioning to a career that will allow you to take the advances you want as career advances.

mac40k said:

Actually amigo there are plenty of cases where this is a problem.

Our friend Galdor was complaining about the limit on elf-capable career choices. I myself have a similar problem with my priest (or previously as I was considering mage). Allow me to provide a concrete example to elucidate.

Lets say I'm playing a Bright Order mage. I like to pop out the sword of Rhuin and stand shoulder to shoulder with the witch-hunter smiting the enemies of the empire. Consider that Wizards ALONE have 6 career skills, but even with the 'free' skill advance (before taking the ones on the sheet) they can only progress 2-3 of them. This means to keep up with obligatory super-important ranks in skills you have to dip into your non-career advances. And that's before you consider say true non-career advances (like weapon skill for that sword of Rhuin you like so much, and maybe a Resilience/Coordination to help you survive, and get better defenses on the front line).

So those 2 career advances are very much severely limiting. And being a wizard? You can't just shift careers to something outside your 3.

So I feel his pain. I really do. I see WHY FFG doesn't want you having a whole sheet full of non-career advances, but it is limiting depending on your character.

monkeylite said:

No, that's not correct.

Wood Elfs can do only Careers that explicity say "Wood Elf" (because there is no text -on Careers- such as "dwarf ONLY").

So there are FEW Careers indeed available to Wood Elfs: maybe 5 total, with Adventurer's Toolkit careers included!!!

Galdor said:

Yeah, sorry, I didn't have my career sheets in front of me. The answer is even easier than I thought, a wood elf can enter a career that says 'wood elf,' or 'any race.' From the core set + adventurers toolkit though, that's more like 10, not 5.

monkeylite said:

No, that is not true (alas)

There are only 5 careers that say "Wood Elf".

Only 5, Adventurer's Toolkit careers included!!!

PS: there are not a text like "any race".. ever

Scout, Mercenary, Soldier, Bounty Hunter, Thief, Messenger, Waywatcher, Envoy, Hunter, Wardancer.

'any race' is written on some careers from later supplements.