When going over the official character sheet, I noticed that some of the skills have pre-checked boxes for Basic and Trained, but some have Basic available, but Trained checked off. This has me confused. Why would the 2nd rank be checked without the first?

Kabal said:

Has no deeper meaning, I think. Don't forget that having it as a basic skill is not a prerequisite to acquiring it as trained, where as having it trained is a prerequisite to getting it at +10 in general.

Alex

As I understand it the "Basic" box is not a level at which the skill is learned... It's just a tick box to show whether or not the skill in question is a Basic one, i.e. can be attempted without being trained. If the Basic box is not ticked, then it's an Advanced skill (and must be trained to be used).

Neisseria said:

But various backgrounds in DH and RT allow a char to use an untrained skill as if it was basic.

Alex

It is the same here on the DW character sheet. They already put all the advance skills your SM background must give you as basic instead (giving you the opportunity to use with your half characteristic value instead of not at all), and for some you've been trained to use them but are not naturally familiar with explaining why the basic box isn't used.

ak-73 said:

Just to make sure I have this straight, I'm going to go through the first 4 skills listed on the character sheet, and then also throw in an example of the one that confused me:

Acrobatics (Ag) empty empty empty empty
Awareness (Per) full full empty empty
Barter (Fel) full empty empty empty
Blather (Fel) empty empty empty empty
Ciphers/Chapter Runes empty full empty empty

So, based on what you were saying above:
The starting character has no skill in Acrobatics, and cannot use it as an untrained skill (same for Blather);
Awareness is a basic skill and also one which the character is trained in;
Barter is a basic skill, so it can be attempted as an untrained skill, but is not one that the character is trained in;
And Cyphers/Chapter Runes is not a basic skill, but one that the character has training in.

I can see how that makes sense, then.
Thanks for the info

Exactly.

You got no skill at all in acrobatic and will be in serious trouble if attempting an acrobatic figure same for blather exept you're not needing to make acrobatic jump to be in trouble...lol.

Awerness is a basic skill because in your life before Astartes you was in need to stay alive and see troubles comming, and your astartes training taught more about visual, hearing or even smelling clues. (for some even tasting some clue)

Runes and astartes cipher were nothing close to your world as a human being but as an astartes they were taught to you by your chapter so you're trained but don't have it in basic

A bigger problem with the pre-gen sheets is that they don't show that space marines start with Dodge and Intimidate as trained skills.

I still think I prefer the Dark Heresy style layout where Basic Skills are on the left and Advanced Skills are on the right. I think its easier to read, especially for newer players.

Trained Dodge and Intimidate are both listed as Rank 1 General space marien advancements, and both are not listed on the character sheet, although listed in the starting skills. An Errata is direly needed

Well this thread is very old,

but I didn't find any better topic and no solution for my question I would like to ask.

I cannot find the Barter-Skill in the Book only on the sheet, so is there no such skill or was it just not added to the book?

gBA

Disguise also

cannot find it elsewhere than on the sheet...

Yeah, those are carry overs from other systems. While Barter can feature heavily in Dark Heresy (individual money is tracked in that system) and can be the theme for whole campaigns in Rogue Trader, it has no place in Deathwatch, as the system of acquiring goods is based on renown and requisition. Quite frankly, situations where barter would come into play are simply not a space marine's job, Rogue Traders exist for that. Similarly, the idea of disguising a space marine as anything else is absolutely ludicrous, and it would be insulting to their heritage and the honor of their chapter to attempt to do so.

The main reason those are on the sheet is for transfer characters- those being used in Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader. Even then, it is *exceedingly* unlikely your Space Marine will actually have those skills, so they could have safely been omitted, but as we've seen, this is hardly the only issue or oversight in this character sheet, much less this game system.

Indeed, I can't imagine a situation where Space Marine will need to Barter. All cases close to that can be well portrayed by Charm skill, representing SM persuading someone.

In case of disguise, normally SM can not use it for obvious reasons (their physique, skills and weaponry) but if you want to mix DW character in DH or RT as KillMarine, technically he can try to disguise himself as a mutant of some kind, but again most part of imperium does not tolerate mutants and he will most likely reveal himself the moment he starts any complex action. Even in that case I think you can use Concealment.