Question for all GMs:

The squad mode chapter gives descriptions of all the Codex squad power and says that every marine has access to all the codex powers (assuming enough cohesion points) and his own chapter specific powers (which only affect him and any chapter brothers). The section on squad leaders and oaths seems to contradict this and say that the codex powers available to a squad are determined by their squad leader and oath and the whole squad has access to the squad leaders chapter powers.

Opinions and suggested ruling please?

Our group ran into the same issue and question, and we think we came up with the right answer. I can't say if this is how it is actually intended, but I think this is how it breaks down:

• The kill-team starts with access to all the Codex Squad Mode Powers.
• Only squad-mates from the same chapter can use chapter-specific Squad Mode Powers.
• Oaths are optional, and, if taken, limit the Codex Squad Mode Powers that the kill-team can employ. However, they gain access to the benefits of the Oath and the Squad Leader's chapter-specific Squad Mode Powers.
  

So, taking an Oath is a trade-off. Your kill-team loses the versatility of the full Codex Squad Mode Power selection, but gains additional benefits and access to chapter-specific Squad Mode Powers. This interpretation seems to make the most sense, and fits with the flavor of the game.

You must take an Oath, which limits the powers available. This is likely a wording issue, as originally all the powers were available. This was later changed during the playtest to the system it has now which is limited by Oaths.

I personally like the Oath system and its effects on powers.

The oath section specifically says, "may" take an oath.

So, if it's true that you must take and oath, this is something that really needs to an errata as to not confuse people.

And, this is also why I think they should have waited for a revised printing before doing the collector's editions.

This was the only reason I didn't get the collectors edition. I didn't want to spend 200 quid (including shipping) on a rulebook that I knew from experiance was bound to contain mistakes. If FFG had waited for a second print run before releasing the collectors edition so they could incorperate erratta then I'd definately have shelled out the money. It is an awesome piece.

kenshin138 said:

Basically this. I generally read the "have all the powers" bit as meaning you can access all of them, meaning you don't have to pay to get them. It's just that you are limited on which you can take during a mission by the Oath that is chosen.

Also, the interpretation meaning people not of a chapter can use the squad leader's chapter power is incorrect. Only people from the same Chapter as the squad leader may use the bonuses conferred.

MILLANDSON said:

I continue to have issue with this sadly. I ran my first DW game with my local group (different than my playtest group) and they agreed that this makes the chapter abilities 99% useless and they likely will never use them. My kill-team are each different Chapters, so its a waste of Cohesion (which is very limited) for just one person to get an ability.

Likely I will have a house-rule that it plays like this until the kill-team are all Rank 3 or 4, then the Leader's abilities can affect the whole group. This would reflect the "our strength is our diversity" theme quite a bit IMHO.

With this said I can see more power-gaming types going with Kill-Teams all of the same Chapter sadly.

From my reading of it, you can only ever use the Chapter Squad Abilities if you are from that Chapter, which makes sense to me. I also think it depends a lot on the make-up of your kill-team, because if you have quite a few members from the same Chapter, they become a lot more useful. I honestly don't see the problem that they won't be used all that often, because each Chapter has it's own different types of tactics and training, and, in my opinion, the Codex abilities are better.

Your houserule sounds pretty interesting though, and also makes some amount of sense.

I sent Ross an e-mail asking for clarification on it either way. I was just saying how I read it, since it sounded fairly plain that only fellow Chapter members benefited.

MILLANDSON said:

Poor Ross, I sent him one earlier about all of this as well.

kenshin138 said:

Ah well, nevermind. All we need to be worried about now is if we get two different contradictory answers

I mean, I'm happy to be wrong, it'd mean getting more use out of the Chapter abilities. It's just I can see that having it be just Marines from the Squad Leader's Chapter makes perfect sense too, because it is training only they have.

MILLANDSON said:

Based on RAW you are correct. I am more concerned if that was the intent. If it was, then I'll just house-rule it to be as I mentioned. Maybe Rank 3 or so before they can start using them, to show teamwork and brotherhood.

The annoying thing, I think, is that I can see it both ways. The Squad Leader might well have taught the others in his unit about his tactics, and so means they can use the Chapter Squad Abilities, that makes sense. It also makes sense that only fellow Chapter members can benefit from the Chapter Squad Abilities, as they are tactics and skills only taught to that Chapter.

I'm happy with it either way

Well, if people get the leader's Squad ability right away, this lower the value of the Tactical Marine's Tactical Expertise ability... especially since has he starts with Command has a skill and can raise Fellowship easily, he's likely to be the default leader in most case (making the ability void).

Wargamer said:

Heh. They already make good use of free playtesters, so maybe they should make use of free proofreaders.

Kage

Tarkand said:

Good catch, I had forgot about this ability.

Thankfully in my group the tactical marine didn't take that so if I do a house-rule it won't cause any issue.

Yeah, the same topic came up in my group, so it was decided that since having the tactical expertise would be useless if all benefited from any chapter squad ability. That is my logic any way.

Hesporos said:

I think the existence of the ability settles any doubts on the issue.

Alex