I'm starting up a rogue trader game with a couple buddies, and ive had some interesting ideas thrown from the soon to be explorers. the Rogue Trader is the only heir to Haarlock that Erasmus missed in his purging of the family line (the "Ghost of Haarlock" will feature prominently in all the story arcs). the Haarlock is living on whatever's left of the family fortune, and thus has had to recruit his retinue from Heretical sources to get the skills he needs. the only conventional characters are the explorator and the Navigator. the explorator is a repentant member of the Dark Mechanicus and the Navigator is a Renegade. Our Psyker is an Eldar Farseer, and we have some extra muscle in a frighteningly calm and intelligent Ork Freebooter. however, theres a character who wants to play a "traitor" Marine still loyal to the Emporer. are there any Astartes Chapters or Traitor Legions active in the Expanse?

Well, there are only 2 "canon" chapters in Calixus, and none in Koronus.

However that doesn't take into account DIY chapters, which GW has purposely left open ended. And renegade chapters don't really have a "base of operations" (except the eye of terror) and can travel wherever.

So if you want a loyalist chapter you can make one up, possibly a successor chapter if you want to keep the flavor of one of the "offcial" chapters.

If you want a fallen chapter they can be from one of the fleet based renegades, or you can make a new chapter up.

Finally, you could have a disgraced marine from most any chapter, on the run, hiding out in Koronus where the Imperium doesn't have much of a presents.

But remember, a Marine is going to be grossly overpowered in combat compared to most other classes. So just remember to take that into account when designing scenarios.

good point. guess ill have to think of something (soul drinker disgraced by his chapter's fall maybe?). and as far as combat goes, im going to strip him of most of his power and gear starting off, representing his "fallen" status (i.e. no power armour starting off-got rid of it as it made him stand out-, most of his combat prowess will be advancements hell have to pay for) he will still be much stronger than the average character, and combat will be scaled up for him in the form of heavy hitter enemies only he (and maybe the ork) can handle. having to live with xenos races hes been taught to hate since his induction will make for interesting roleplaying, though.

Do Marines get disgraced? I thought they lived and died in the Marines? They never "quit" the Marines, so how can they be disgraced and allowed to live? Not that I doubt it can happen, but I would love to create an Arch-militant who was a former Marine. Is this possible? Or would they send a gang after him to kill him?

Would it not be possible for a Rogue Trader to have a Deathwatch team assigned to his vessel for a special mission, maybe even end up going on 3 or 4 RT adventures?

I keep think some day to do a Farscaped themed RT campaign. The PCs are escaped prisoners fleeing in a Zoat vessel being pursued by a Radical Inquisitor, a space marine strike frigate, and a splinter hive fleet....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farscape

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Yes, marines can be exiled from their chapters in disgrace. (See Dead Sky, Black Sun) Chapters known for this are: Raven Guard, White Scars, Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and, IIRC, Mentor Legion.

Calixis and Koronus have, IIRC experianced incursions by the Alpha Legion in the past. Other possibilities include The Fallen, who have a history of traveling by Rogue Trader, and Calixis is not terribly far from the ruins of Caliban, once again, IIRC.

Space Marines might be disgraced for losing a precious chapter relic. Alternatively, individual guilt might motivate some Space Marines to abandon their brothers to self exile in search of penance.

from wiki:

Bloodquest
Captain of the Blood Angels, Leonatos, was given a weapon called "Encarmine," the "Sword of Belarius," as a prize for his prowess as a warrior and for the accomplishments of his men on the battlefield. However, Garshul the Destroyer, an Ork, manages to capture the weapon, causing Leonatos to be dishonoured and then exiled. He wanders with his fellow soldiers as they try to regain their honour by hunting down the sword. This takes them into the Eye of Terror where they battle the forces of Chaos that control the planet so they can finally regain their treasured weapon and their honour so they could be welcomed back once again amongst their brethren.[3]

It might not be as uncommon as one would hope taht these lost marines turn merc. There's the better part of a merc squad drawn from several chapters in Dead Sky, and Warsmith Honsu seems to simply assume it of Ventris. This would suggest that it's not unheard of. The Fallen in the Dark Angel's novel spent some time using this as cover before persuing his own agenda.

So once the Space Marine is no longer a Marine, is he anathema to the common subject of the Imperium? I am sure they do not take their gear with them. Does this mean that you can be a Rogue Trader AND a Space Marine? What would happen if the LAST of a prominent Dynasty was a Space Marine, and he inherited the Warrant of Trade? Would he have the option to take it up? Could powerful forces in the government make him take it up? This is all very exciting to me now.

Actually, if fluff is to be believed, they do take their gear with them, though usually it's ritually stripped of insignia.

As fr as the other questions go, I have no idea.

I wouldn't imagine they would be granted any other official honors or positions, i.e. Rogue Trader or joining the AdMech as an explorator.

They are exiles, ronin, vagabonds, villains (in the classical sense). They are disgraced and cast out of one of the most important and holy institutions in the Imperium. They are the fallen at best and traitors excommunicatus at worst.

In a feudal society you don't get rewarded for that, you don't go on to bigger and better things. You have failed in your calling as one of the Emperors Angels of Death. You wont be trusted or forgiven. Life as a gun for hire is the best you can hope for.

And should they begin to seek power and glory I imagine it would attract the ire of the inquisition who would see it as proof of their fallen nature.

The Imperium is VERY touchy about the balance of power between branches of government and tends to prosecute those who disturb the balance with great predjudice.

So why let them take there gear with them if they are totally disgraced? Why even let them live?

The expectation is that the Marine will either be given some sort of quest to redeem his honour (recover the Blade Encarmine, slay a particular daemon or such) or be exiled from his Chapter for a set term (usually at least a decade). In either of these cases the Chapter will wish to give the Marine a fair chance of success and survival, so that a suficiently valliant warrior can be returned to them, purified of their sins by their endeavour.

In cases of full scale treason against the Imperium, intentional betrayal of the Chapter (rather than by error or negligence) and so-on, a swift death is more likely.

With the arrival of Deathwatch, the GM in the game I'm currently playing decided to "honor" me (I'm the RT of the group) with a Deathwatch detachment, due to the crazy **** we've been up to involving the Eldar and the Tau (I managed to talk a fleet of each of them into killing each other so I could sneak my people into a Tau facility in the middle of the firefight), this allows two interesting options (in addition to making boarding and hit and run actions against Xeno vessels a joke):

1) Players can choose to play a Marine.

2) The group can switch to the deathwatch squad as a whole and play out their actions.

Though personally I'd rather get the lot of them off my ship and have the Inquisition forget that I exist... I just wanna make more money, not end up their pet RT. >_< (And I find Space Marines rather dull as things go)

I personally think that it is already quite impossible to have an eldar farseer working with an ork freebooter, so why not adding a marine. From what i know from the ork and the eldar, they are both overpowered in what they do (i am still waiting for MY "into the storm", France seems to be so far from the rest of the world), the ork freebooter being almost as powerful as a marine, but with more fun , the eldar farseer being... an eldar farseer (most powerful and stable psyker ever ?). So adding an unstoppable (in)human killing machine, why not ? The player should be ready for long periods of watching other playing during the trade / negotiation phases as, as far as i know, marines aren't very skilled when it comes to talking with... anything else than an other marine.

My group is getting ready to kick off Lure of the Expanse this week, and I have decided to allow my Rogue Trader the privilege of carrying a Deathwatch kill team on his ship as they head into the far reaches of the Koronus Expanse. The ultimate in-game reason for this has yet to be hashed out, but I envision it as our ultimate transition into playing Deathwatch once we finish LotE.

The thing is, only the RT PC will know they are there. All the other PCs will know is that right before they left Port Wander, a mysterious shuttle docked with the rear-most bay of the ship after all non-servitors were required to clear the area. Also, a section of the ship is now suddenly off limits to non-servitor crew. This is where the kill team will live and train during their travels with the Rogue Trader. When asked about it, the RT will evade the question and never let them know the true nature of their visitors.

The plan between me and the RT PC is to occasionally launch the mystery shuttle at Eldar ships that have been partially disabled to allow the Space Marines the chance to clear things out. All the players will see is the shuttle going over, possibly some signs of great battle on the ship, and then the shuttle coming back.

After doing this two or three times, I plan on actually surprising the players and letting them play the kill team for one mission...just to give them a taste of Deathwatch. The RT player is pretty excited about this...I think we'll have some fun with it.

Wouldn't there be some sort of morale boost if the crew know an Astartes detachment is on board the vessel? Why would it be kept a secret? Is it possible for the Deathwatch team to be injured if the vessel is hit by a critical in combat?

Well, the main reason to keep it secret is to make it a fun surprise for the players at a later date. But the in-game reason is still being worked out between me and the Rogue Trader. It will probably have something to do with the Ordo Xenos wanting to have a team out in the Koronus Expanse "just in case" but in return allowing the Rogue Trader to utilize them in appropriate xenos-oriented situations.

We think it sounds fun, so that's really all the reason my group needs.

Well, addressing the OP. The rough guide lines that I've heard is that a DW Marine is about equal to newly Ascended DH characters. RT characters are about midway in between that and a fresh DH character, so limiting the marine somehow might not be a terrible idea.

Someone already mentioned the Soul Drinkers, and with good reason. The Soul Drinkers introduced something of a twist: A chapter of marines loyal to the emperor but who hated the Imperium. Brought into conflict with the Imperium by the manipulations of Chaos and their own pride, they were excommunicated. Over time the chapter grew more and more fragmented. This offers one explanation.

In addition to the disgraced Marine going on a quest, I'd like to offer another explanation. Space Marine Chapters could be heavily damaged, to the point where they are no longer combat capable. Perhaps they fought in battles where their losses were so catastrophic and under circumstances that didn't allow for the recovery of their gene-seed. Furthermore, these losses meant the losses of their home worlds, leaving them literally rootless, tattered shreds of their former glory. Similar to the plot of Dawn of War 2 except the Marines get the worst of the bargain, and lose their worlds to a section of a Hive Fleet as one possibility, or perhaps a Black Crusade.

These tattered remnants, appalled at the callous way they were treated by Imperial commanders (Lots of venal, semi-incompetent noble generals and warmasters in the various books) and their lack of support from the Imperium decide that the preservation of their Chapter is their sacred duty to the Emperor. Taking their remaining brothers, loading them up in a pair of strike cruisers and their chapter serf support ships they chart a course for an almost unknown sector of space with the intent to found new recruiting worlds, far from the reach of their former Imperial Commander (who may or may not have a grudge)...

That would leave a lot of plot material and potential explanations for why a marine or marines were in Koronus and travelling with a Rogue Trader:

-Searching for Archeotech sites with the technology to let them clone or replenish their gene-seed. Perhaps a bit of ancient chapter lore has hinted at such a site located within the Expanse? Perhaps the tech was already found and now rests within the remains of an Explorator fleet trapped in the Processional of the Damned?

-Expanding the chapters resources. Although supremely self-reliant, even Space Marines need some support. Perhaps the chapter made the decision to hire out squads or fire teams as mercs to Rogue Traders.

-Damned and in Despair. The chapter has broken from the Imperium entirely (not just their immediate commanders), and they seek knowledge and power to not only rebuild but also strengthen themselves enough to stand alone or even strike back. This would be a better option for a more radical game like the one you seem to be building up for. The levels of chaos taint in the Chapter could be entirely up to you, as well.

Anyway, lots of options to let a Marine PC play with a Rogue Trader. The thing to keep in mind though is that Marines are really inhuman. Their focus. Their bravery. Their discipline. All of these things, more so even then their physical abilities, are what set them apart. When a Marine performs an action he does so with the whole of his being. Marines were created and exist solely to fight for the God-Emperor. Even if the Chapter is renegade or traitor, they still retain that same level of single mindedness and zeal that makes them fanatics in the truest sense of the word, even if the object of their fanaticism is no longer the God-Emperor and his Imperium.

This doesn't necessarily make them one-dimensional to play. But it definitely puts them in the same category as playing the alien Eldar or Ork. You can't just roll up the character without some fore-thought.

Can definitely be rewarding though...

Deathwatch details the Black Shields. I see no reason a Black Shield could not be traveling the expanse on a quest he does not divulge the nature of to anyone. Perhaps he sometimes assists a Rogue Trader, traveling with one vessel for years, or maybe only to the next stop, always searching for something.

Althought they've been touched upon above, the principle Astartes presence in Koronus is going to be the Storm Wardens. They are (secretly) based on Sacris in the Calixis sector, and are specifically stated to see patrolling the borders of the Imperium as within their ambit. Given that one of the few local (overt) forces capable of posing a real military threat to the Calixis Sector is the Orks of Undred Undred Teef, it seems a bit of a no brainer to suggest that the Storm Wardens are going to be very interested in the Koronus Expanse.

One would imagine that the Storm Wardens patrol into the Expanse on a fairly regular basis, though they probably don't bother keeping Imperial Navy or Rogue Trader forces appraised of their plans in advance. They may conduct pre-emptive raids against Ork forces in Koronus, like the raid on Kastorel Novum conducted by the Raven Guard in the Forge World book of the same name.

They probably don't conduct much exploration themselves (after all, that's what Rogue Traders are for, right?) and wouldn't bother involving themselves in RT intrigues outside the Imperium...but one imagines that they would be very interested in reports filtering back from the Expanse of large scale military threats.

It's possible that the Storm Wardens have permanent forces in the Koronus Expanse: perhaps agents within Port Wander or Footfall who look for rumours about Ork movements...or perhaps even a force of Scouts based within a strike vessel within Ork held systems, powered down and floating within an asteroid field so they can monitor the Greenskin's actions.

There may even be a Veteran Sergeant who has the role of spymaster for the Chapter across the whole Expanse. No Chapter Master worth his salt is going to ignore potential military threats on his doorstep, or rely completely upon the Adeptus Terra and Inquisition to provide him with intelligence on enemy movements.

So I'd suggest that the Storm Wardens are heavily - if probably covertly - involved in the region, in addition to any renegade or exiled Marines.

Why must a marine be limited on interaction with other people? In Horus Rising most of the book is not even about combat. Combat is quick and usually told through flashbacks...Marine flashbacks told to the rememberancers. Loken clearly has feelings for others, including non-marines. He even questions orders, decisions, and even whether the crusade will ever even end. When asked about feeling fear, he says not the way normal humans do. But he does feel doubt, tension, stress, worry. Marines are portrayed with a sense of humour as well. In fact, when Horus is dealing with the interix or whatever they were called, the biggest break through was between Loken and a captain in the inter-whatever army through conversation. Normal humans seem to have a hard time with marines at first, but once they re around them some they seem to see them more as people.

Just my two cents.

The Storm Wardens are touched on in Deathwatch, and it mentions they are in the Halo Stars.

Also, Deathwatch states that a Space Marine in full armor is 2.1 meters tall. That makes them 6'8 in the armor. Without the armor that likely makes them around 6'4, which is well within a tall, but normal, human.

Well, the Deathwatch book explains that they like to work in secret. So they wouldn't be parading themselves around in front of the crew for the Rogue Trader's benefit, and they certainly wouldn't appreciate any ship-wide announcements about it.

For example, in the book it talks about how only the highest echelons of the Achilus Crusade actually know that the Deathwatch have a presense in the Jericho Reach.

And of course, the more rogue of the Imperium's Rogue Traders don't like having Space Marines around because if they're not on their best behavior, bad things could happen. And Space Marines aren't really the type of 'people' that you could arrange to have an accident, and who wants to have even half a dozen angry super-soldiers rampaging through their expensive starship, making their way to the engine room or bridge?