To be 'Derlethian' is to cling to the dichotomy that August Derleth tried to impose on Lovecraft's (and others) writing. Derleth was responsible for the 'Mythos' as is popularized today. Attempting to classify everything into tidy little packages for bite size consumption.

It works to a certain degree in portions of text, but fails in the larger sense of the greater work Lovecraft and others shared. Derleth is certainly no schmuck, but at the same time I disagree with his attempts at confining that which defies taxonomy and was never meant to be classified in such a way. To do so removes the one key feature that Lovecraft encouraged, and that was humans are at large meaningless and that we are incapable of correlating such cosmic revelations within the breadth of human understanding.

In game terms, this is necessary and works to confine certain agendas within the context of popular archetypes even though they may be quite incorrect in their associations at times. Some poetic license must be taken in order to maintain game mechanics and the implied balance.

Nice encapsulation, Hellfury.

When I write 'Derlethian' it is definitely intended as an insult. Derleth, in my mind, was responsible for creating a number of "good guy" ancient gods which would assist humanity in their struggle against the unknown. Utterly contrary to HPLs vision of the uncaring universe as I understand it. I just HATE the idea of sympathetic mythos dieties, and would never consider using any of them in one of my games.

There, I feel better now, and will sit down again and cease pounding on the table. Where are my meds?

Chick

To be clear, I meant no insult.

But also to be clear, I find the state of being derlethian distasteful as well.

Well thanks for explaining, Hell.

I would say though, aren't some of the creatures of the Mythos - at times - doing things that COULD be considered "helpful" - at least to a certain person at a certain time - even if the motives are mysterious and for a hidden purpose or one that cannot be gauged by humans ? I mention some story another poster told me - I forget who - where Randolph Carter was being taken by some creature to Azathoth's Court...where, I guess he would be destroyed ? - but someone (Nyarl ? or was it Yog-Sothoth ?) - intercepted the creature and ordered it to take him somewhere else instead (where he did not die, etc).

Granted, it's only one example - but maybe it illustrates that these creatures do things on a level of "reason / purpose / goal" - beyond what humans are capable of understanding......to a point. Some of them, like Nyar....are apparently quite "twisted and evil" - by mortal standards - and generally don't care at all about humanity - unless it serves their purpose to "appear" to care at a certain point time.

Its certainly possible and well within the realm of reason. I think overall its a matter of perspective.

Lets use the Randolph Carter example:

In dream quest of unknown kadath, he is being swept away on a shantak towards Beacon Hill, but is redirected through Nyarlathotep's trickery towards the blind idiot god "For madness and the void's wild vengeance are Nyarlathotep's only gifts to the presumptuous" .

A couple of terrifying paragraphs later " Out of the void S'ngac the violet gas had pointed the way, and archaic Nodens was bellowing his guidance from unhinted deeps. " telling Carter that "You need only turn back to the thoughts and visions of your wistful boyhood."

This leaves us with the dilemma you present. Are there influences that are benevolent towards humanity, or is this yet more machinations to an end only they know of? After all, The Crawling Chaos only moments before promised to return Carter home to the sunset streets of his youth and then sent him hurtling towards doom for reasons only the outer gods are aware of. This is left to the reader to interpret just what agendas these beings present.

Which is also why I forgive and indulge Derleth to a certain degree. He took a Deus Ex Machina plot device, and turned it into a whole way of viewing a specific horror genre. It just so happens though after Lovecraft's death, that he took this possible benevolence and wound it into something that fits into his judeo/christian (Mmre specifically, catholic) ideals. This was a logic trap of Derleth's own making and he attempted to craft the mythos into something wholly new and comforting for such prevalent sensibilities. Again, nice tidy bite size pieces of easy to chew fiction. Anyone who has read Lovecraft knows that this certainly doesn't describe his writing.

There are other examples of possible otherworldy benevolence, most of which involve Randolph Carter, but such boons from the outer gods come at a price unknown. Tempt not fate, nor the capricious agendas of cosmic horrors which are beyond our understanding.

I cant be too hard on Derleth. Without Derleth and Arkham House Publishing, Lovecraft would likely still be among the ranks of relative underrated anonymity that Dunsany and Machen still enjoy.

While I do agree in part, I also have to say that the idea of the Elder Gods makes it easier for people to understand (and thus enjoy), and makes sense from the point of view of the CoC RPG.