My group all want to play different careers/specializations so Iv decided to let them pick from all the main core books 4 DH/RT/DW.

So I wanted to check that I had this right...

A DH character in RT = 4500XP

A DH character in DW = 13000XP

So A RT character in DW = +9500XP

Does this sound as the right spread so the characters start on the same power scale?

If you look at the advancement tables (which ranks characters reach at which xp values) in each rulebook, you'll note that the Rogue Trader and Deathwatch ones start at above 0xp - a starting Rogue Trader character has 5000xp at the start of Rank 1, while a starting Deathwatch character has 13000xp at the start of Rank 1, and in theory all three games use the same XP values, so characters from different games with the same XP values should be about equal in the loosest sense... so a Dark Heresy character with 13000xp (start of Rank 9, so a character from Ascension) or a Rogue Trader character with 13000xp (start of rank 4) should be equal to a starting Deathwatch character.

It's not really quite as easy as that - each game's characters have a different focus and different abilities that make them a little more difficult to balance directly, but that's the basic idea.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Any suggestions on what I should do then.

What I was thinking is that if I allow Each Player to choose either a lvl4 RT Character, OR, a Lvl 1 DW Character, OR, a 'Lvl1' Ascension Character (with 8 lvls in a DH career to make up the rest)

Does this sound about right?

It's kind of technically right, but as was said the different focuses of the game are going to mess things up.

On a ship only the RT characters will be very effective, and their PF will destroy the DW and DH aquisition systems. In combat only the DW characters will accomplish much, or they will just dominate the whole scene. The three level up systems are very different and have certain assumptions made in them that aren't very compatable. DH begins to get unbalanced quickly with PF, and a DW character in any other game will absolutely dominate every combat scenario.

Now I'm not saying you CAN'T. A talented GM and mature players could pull it off with some thought and planning, but understand you are unbalancing your campaign and party dynamics and you need to figure out how to re-balance things. Personally, I probably wouldn't give myself that handicap except in very specific circumstances.

My solution:

Elite Advances and creative fluff interpretation. Books like Into the Storm help to. Focus on the CHARACTERS, not the CLASSES, then make it work. Want to play a commisar? RT with elite advances. Assassin? Guardsman?

Sanctioned Psyker? Astropath using the alternate rules provided.

Feel free to make talents, skills, and abilities from all three lines available as Elite Advances, and make them cheaper if the fluff is right.

Get creative and don't feel constrained by the fluff description. Just because the fluff describes a characters ability do something one way doesn't mean you can't change the fluff to mean something totally different. A senchals abilities could describe an assassin, a military commander, a businessman, or a mobster just as easily, and a RT makes a great General/noble/inquisitor. Heck, even within the same system an Arch-Militant makes a great swashbuckling Rogue Trader, and a Rogue Trader makes an excellent First Officer. Focus on abilities before fluff, and reinterpret as necessary.

Unless I had a particularly good campagin idea I would refrain from crossing classes between games too much. It adds an extra handicap to running a good game and doesn't really add that much to a campagin. With creative fluff interpretation and elite advances you can create any kind of character with the classes given without sacrificing game balance and party dynamics.

riplikash said:

PF means Profit Factor. Even the poorest Rogue Traders are so rich that their wealth isn't expressed in money, but in an abstract factor. A Rogue Trader could outfit an army of 10.000 Soldiers without a huge problem.

And fluffy is a term from the tabletop game. It means something like "fitting the background/ story". Fluff is the story/ background of something.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. As was said, PF is profit factor. A key part of the RT classes mechanics is the expectation that they will have nearly unlimited resources to solve problems, where as DH and DW classes are designed with the expectation that they WILL have limited resources. I was using it as an example of how the different games have different base assumptions that may not be compatable. Through PF into a regular DH game and you will ruin it quickly. Take PF out of a RT game and the characters lose a lot of their utility and power.

Another good example is in their level up trees. A DH character is going to have to spend lots of XP mastering various weaponry and knowledges. The Rogue Trader character is going to master 90% of the weapon classes with just pistol training (universal) and basic weapon training (universal). Because the focus is different.

As for fluff...

As was mentioned, fluff refers to in game explanations for how things work and why. Most items and classes are more about fluff than unique rules. For example: A psionic has a psi blast that damages his opponents psyke for 1d10, a navigator has a warp effect that boils a targets blood for 1d10, a monk had a ki blast that does 1d10, a demon takes control of an opponents hand causing them to stab themselves for 1d10, a mage casts acid bolt, a cyborg fires a laser, a lobsterman shoots spines, a sorcerer summons spiders directly into their mouth, and jackie chan can improvise a random object into a missile.

But mechanically they are ALL the same.

When you strip away the fluff there are only a few types of classes in any given system, and most systems try to provide you with a good set of arch-types from which you can create almost any character imaginable.

In your example you and your players want to try something new, so you decide to bring in classes from other books. But the actual mechanics of the different classes are often not THAT different, its just that the FLUFF is different and that makes you think of them in a different way.

In your mind a commissar, an army officer, a Rogue Trader, and an underworld boss are 4 different classes. In reality, if you throw in a few elite advances, they aren't all that different, it is only the fluff (the description) that is really unique.

D&D has a lot of good example: A noble, a politician, a swashbuckling pirate, a thief, a waif, a tomb raider, and an elven archer are ALL permutations of the Rogue class, but with different focuses. They don't all NEED their own classes, the only real difference is the fluff, i.e. how they are described.

You can create almost any class in RT or DH by choosing an appropriate class and carefully selecting a few elite advances, without sacrificing game balance by introducing incompatable classes.

Again, I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't or can't. I'm just saying that you should recognize 2 things:

1. The three systems, while sharing a core system, are build around three different sets of assumptions. You can make it work, but it will take some extra effort and skill on the part of you and your players, and might not work out.
2. You don't actually need to introduce new "classes" to get the variety you seek. The main thing new "classes" offer is new fluff. You can make almost any kind of character you can imagine with the classes already provided and changing out the fluff (in game explanation).

riplikash said:

Cheers 4 all that, I', tryin 2 get an epic game together, cause the group i play in hav a tendency to 'fiddle the rules' for character creation (for example, a Pathfinder game im in atm relys on the Gestalting rules, plus extras - Im an Archmage - a gestalted (2 classes placed alonside each other, so by 20th level, you have 20 levels in 2 classes - See D&D 3.5 - Unearthed Arcana) Wizard/Bard, plus a few extra rules). What I want is a Campaign that can involve some1 being a Space Marine, but I dont want a combatathon like DW, or 4 every1 2 b a Space Marine.

How about if I the RT stuff and just keep the 9th Level DH and Lvl 1 DW Characters, and try from there. I did have a great idea baout using the Sensai (Emperor's literal children) but decided that they'd end up being mega uber primarchs and changed my mind (I want a high powered game, but not THAT high lol)

If any 1 has any ideas on how I could achieve all this, without breaking the game, it'd b much appreciated.

Cheers