Hi Thaarsten,

This is how it works as I see it. You have the following off hand options.

1) Don't have anything, pretty much requires a sword to other balanced weapon if you want to parry.

2) Use a two handed weapon, can't parry (usually), hits hard and can't be quick drawn. Good if even with bonuses you are going to dodge anyway.

3) Use a second weapon, the penalties are severe unless you have the talants, at low levels that might not be worth it.

4) Use a sheild, get the highest +parry chance plus it means your can sacrifice the parry on the main hand. Say for an axe (or chainsaxe rather than a chainsword, or eventually a powerfist). You can have a sheilds that give you additional cover but they are expensive especially seeing as they degrade like other cover, If you can afford it they might save your life and you can use them just for parrying most of the time.

That in mind, assuming you aren't using a balanced weapon in the main hand (pressumably you want a shock maul asap), get the cheap one asap and upgrade to one from the I:HB, wheather it's the guard or navel shield pretty much depends on your carrying capacity.

Thanks a lot, that makes things a lot clearer

Thaarsten said:

I model a basic Arbites shield using most of the raw stats from the main DH book; 1d5 damage, Primitive, Defensive. However, I also borrow some of the Asencion rules: that the shield gives 3 AP to the users arm and torso or the entire body if the user is stationary, and has a slot in the corner that can be used to steady a Basic weapon so that it can be wielded without penalty. I houserule that a called shot to the viewport (a transparent, flexible material) affords the user only 1 AP of protection if hit.

That's a standard-issue riot gear in my campaign. Better-quality versions used by crack kill-squads and the like may be electrified, give better AP, etc.

Arbites suppression shields are presented in Ascension ; stats on page 141, description on page 142.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Whoops, misspelled Ascension, thanks for pointing that out. As for using the suppression shield in that book, it's too powerful for a starting level character, as is pretty much all the rest of the equipment presented there. I use the rules above so as not to make the shock maul obsolete from the word go while allowing a shield to have purpose in the game.

Suijin said:

I disagree on that point, you can either make 3 attacks with lightning attack or 2 if you are dual-wielding.

From ''Multiple attacks'' on page 190 of the Core Rulebook:

''If you have the Swift Attack or Lightning Attack Talents, you may spend a Full Action to make multiple attacks you with the Talent you have. OR , if you have a weapon in your secondary hand you may also make an extra attack with this weapon.''

The ''Or'' seperates both cases from one another.So it would take 2 Full Actions to do both, which is simply impossible.

Arcaia said:

Actually he is mostly right, and it hinges heavily on two things : the full text bracket of the quote you are using, and how it links to another page specifically talking of two weapon wielding, and the errata.

As per Errata, if you have Two Weapon Wielder, are using two weapons, and have Swift or Lightning Attack, you may make the 2/3 attacks with one (melee) weapon *and* one additional attack with your off hand melee weapon (or if you have both two weapon wielder melee and ranged, you may make a single attack with a pistol held in your off hand). So yes, its entirely possible for you to make three attacks with Swift Attack, and four with Lightning Attack. However, melee weapons always have at minimum a -10 base penalty for dual wielding (ambidextrous and two weapon wielder only reduce it to that point).

You *can* make a full action to attack with both weapons, but that is *only* if you have two weapon wielder. Otherwise you may only attack with one hand at a time, this is clearly stated via the text link to Two-Weapon Fighting. Penalties for attacking in such a manner depend on your talents, but assuming you have both ambidextrous and two weapon wielder, you may make a single attack with both hands at -10.

Rakiel said:

No, you only need to wield 2 weapons, not ti have the Talent.

The rules states that, without the Talent, your attacks are at -20, for the first, and -40, for the off hand attack.

Ah herp derp, thats part of the errata yes. Without it you can only attack with one hand at a time without TWW, with it you can attack for massive penalty. Forgot because its pretty useless to attack in such a manner, haha.

Hate to sound like a noob, but unfortunately on this forum I am - care to post a link to the errata if such a link exists? I'm not requesting a specific link to what we were talking about, just one to the website if it exists.

Much appreciated.

Arcaia said:

BAM ! And if you look on the DH support site you can find a really pretty version of the one in the link... if your printer can handle it ;-)

Face Eater said:

I beg to disagree with the above statement, the can't parry bit atleast. Many 2 handed weapons are perfectly capable of being used to parry, Quarter Staves, seven section staves, hand and half swords, two handed swords, even axes can all be used to parry, while many may not be possess the balanced or defensive qualities player can still attempt to parry.

I think that each weapon has to be looked at induvidually and both players and GM's should agree on the effects if it's not a listed item or has multiple rules. And the easy way to ensure that it remains balanced is remiind your players anything that a PC can do an NPC can do too.

Valdek said:

I was generalising but anything that considered a great weapon is UNWIELDY which means it cannot be used to attempt to parry at all.

There are a number of two handed weapons that can be used to parry with (e.g. the Long Sabre and Flail) but they do substanstially less damage than a great weapon, more than a single handed weapon and still cannot be quickdrawn.