I was just wondering that if i wanted to run a game wiv a Space Marine in a DH/RT game, or a none Marine in a DW game, what would be the best level to start every1 at. I know that if you wanted to play a DH career in RT, you'd start at about level 5 with your DH character, so what if I wanted to run a (for instance) Dark Heresy Game, where one of the characters is a Space Marine (Eg, A Deathwatch/Grey Knight Assigned to an Inquisitor's retinue, and I know sum1 will say that Marines aren't assigned individually to Inquisitors, i dont care lol, its 'my' 40k universe lol)

As I understand it a Space Marines starts with stats/equipment/skills etc. equivalent to around DH 13.000 xp...

Crownblade said:

Which is what career rank roughly?

Dark Heresy: Ascension

I'm actually doing this in a current running campaign.

My character was possessed by a daemon (stupid 94 on Perils of the Warp!) - but via the Radical Handbook and throwing away a lot of Fate Points (3 is a lot in my opinion) - he survived it. The book even suggests that doing via Fate Points is a "Self-exorcism" - at any rate - that's how we ran with it.

It just so happened that this event occurred in the presence of the Grey Knights. Needless to say - the DM deemed that they were intruiged.

The many trials a Grey Knight needs to go through - essentially produce the same effects as the "Exorcised" Advanced Path. "Fearlessness" "Detachment" -

SO - off my character has gone to Saturn. He'll be back when we reach Ascension levels.

Hang on, the Grey Knights have now co-opted the position of the Exorcists to prove how 'ard they are?

Kage

Collinsas said:

Or if one doesn't have that supplement and doesn't want to buy it, Rank 9 for DH and rank 4 for RT, iirc.

Alex

You have to realize a 9th rank DH or 4th rank RT character will be a wimp in combat compared to a 1st rank DW character. And as the levels go up, the DW marine will get more and more combat monsterish.

This can be OK if your game isn't all combat all the time. A space marine will be a magnet for opposition fire, with a little work you could make everyone feel like they had a part in combat. For out of combat, the space marine will be outclassed in many situations. Depending on the DH/RT characters and the situation.

You might try one as an NPC ally and see how it works out before agreeing to a player space marine in a DH/RT game. Many Rogue Traders have a bit of the pirate in them, so how you add a space marine to the mix could be an issue.

In a DW game, a specialist could be added by the Inquisition. Like an Inquisitor from Ascension.

And as you said, this is *your* game. Change any fluff that gets in your way of a good game. GW changes their own fluff early and often.

Nojo509 said:

Wimp? I don't think so. My 4th Rank Scum has now 18 Wounds, I believe. And I can still take two more. I have two weapon wielder and ambidextrous, as well as mighty shot. If he's being given 2 hi-damage pistols and a good set of armour, he should do okay. Next rank (that's the 5th) he'll get step aside.

Now his fellow Acolyte is a 4th Rank Assassin with a Power Sword, a Bolt Gun and a Refractor Field. That, my friend, is scary. If you project that up to Rank 9, they should be able to ride along.

DH and RT chars just need the proper equipment.

Nojo509 said:

DH and RT chars have to be given equipment to be able to roll with the Marines, that's for sure. With DH starting equipment they won't get very far. But other than that...

Alex

It actually says in the book

DW character is worth 12,000 XP,

RT is worth 5,000 XP

DH 1,000 XP

So a DH character would need to be at Ascension Level, rt rank 7 for a rank 1 marine

I have completed adventure for DH last week (with 1 Space marine included in the group).
The group consisted of:
-1 tactical Space Marine
-1 rank 4 Sororitas
-1 rank 3 Assassine

It functioned really good (better than expected). There were only 2 issues that needed to be solved:
-Doing damage
...-Here you really must look out, because the bolter is a monster!
.....My solution here was to limit the astartes shells the marine had and he had to take the normal (DH) bolter
.....ammunition for the remaining shots. I ruled that per 14 shots the marine has in total he had to roll
.....1d10 at char creation and the total result is the total number of astartes ammunition he has. The remaining
.....ammunition was made up by normal (DH) bolter ammunition.
.....With that solution the marine did still do very high damage, but not all mobs were one shot one kill ones.

-Receiving damage
...-Here one must look out, all that can harm an space marine can do really nasty damage against all others
.....Either you go for high penetration low damage weapons or you let the guys with the big guns shoot at the
.....Space Marine. (In one situation I had a plasma pistol on an enemy, the problem was the marine only showed
.....up 2 turns after the others.....and they took a really nasty beating from only one hit, whereas the same
.....hit [it was a DH plasma pistol] would only have done a small wound to the space marine)

In the end (and with some really strange dice rolls where I had my damage rolls when I hit the sororitas
rarely show up anything beside 9 or 10 and for the space marine rarely anything beyond 5) the sororitas
had only 3 Hits left (all fate points used), the assassin had a bit more left (also all fate points used)
and the space marine only had lost 5 hit points (all fate points left).

As comment:
The sororitas had a light power armor and a toughness bonus of 4.

In the end:
You must only look out for the damage the marine does, and the damage the NPC's can do, and the equipment the characters are using.
If you do that then including a space marine in a DH group isn't much of a problem

RyueOkami said:

This is one of the spots that FFG has failed the 40K RPG IN MY HUMBLE OPINION (ie not fact).

If they would follow the same XP path for rank progression and have listed in RT Rank One as Rank Five, then there would be no confusion. Same goes for DW, list Rank One as Rank Ten or something.

Notice that the NPC stat blocks do not list career, rank, XP available or XP Spent. Thats how any character should look.

Truly the Class/Level system is a problem to a certain degree.

Peacekeeper_b said:

You forget that Deathwatch and Dark Heresy are "distinct games" (end of quote) and if they had the same progression table, it might occur to customers that the games aren't all that distinct after all.

Anyway, I love the games and all but the thinly veiled excuses for making some profit are lame.

The first rule should be: be honest to customers and fans. If you decide on a given approach to make more money/profit, say so. Most people are adults around here after all.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Didnt forget that they were suppose to be distinct games, just comsider that a massive mistake on FFGs behalf.

It ties to how the WHFRP system brakes down at super high levels. To compensate, they have to adjust the scale.

On the bright side, they've got an angle for "40k RPG second edition."

Kage

As far as using a space marine in an ongoing campaign I have recently been intrigued with what it would be like to play a Fallen of the Dark Angels (Love them Dark Angels).

Back story would be mandatory for me to use the character but I believe it creates many options for additional roleplay for a space marine. Of course with suitable background you could play many different space marines in this manner if your GM is not an extreme hardliner or if you being the GM don't stamp out any deviation from what is perceived as canon.

Just my 2 cents.

FatPob said:

Something wrong with my book then. On page 34 of DW it says 14,000 exp for a rogue trader character, and 14,000 exp for an ascension character (which is the first rank of ascension or considered rank 9 for DH).

Also I don't see how vindicare assassins would be lacking in a DW game in combat. Sure if you play an adept they are going to suck at combat.

Kage2020 said:

Like...

Psyker with Divine Shot and a Lascannon vs a Space Marine

Hehehe

Artaxerxes said:

But he's a Black Templar with Abhor the Witch. If nothing else by the time you have the rules settled on what happens he should have had plenty of time to go and get a stormshield.

Trying to beat space marines in a who-can-kick-the-most-ass competition is kind of silly it's their thing that they exel at.

Ascended characters can probably match them and Rogue trader PC's might with the right equipment, but the only other PC that can outmatch them is the Vindicare Assassin, and really only because of Temple Assassin.

Others can usually out talk them (especially is they have and Influence score) but not out-inspire them.

They're really competent.