Myth: Lovecraft’s Elder Sign

At no point in Lovecraft’s tales does he give a physical description of the Elder Sign. He mentions it a scant four times, and these seem to imply that it is a hand gesture. In a letter to Clark Ashton Smith dated November 7, 1930, Lovecraft ends with the following comment:

“Again thanking you in Tsathoggua’s name for the recent shipment, & hoping to see more items from your pen ere long, I append the Elder Sign & the Seal of N’gah, given in the Dark Cycle of Y’hu.”

Following this Lovecraft signed his name (“Ec’h-Pi-El”) and drew two peculiar figures. The latter, the Seal of N’gah, looks something like a stag beetle, having six legs and three horns. The former, the Elder Sign, looks something like the branch of a pine or fir tree, shown below. The misconception that the Elder Sign is a pentagram with a flaming eye in the center is probably due to August Derleth’s description of it in his The Lurker at the Threshold.

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx329/abraxasourboros2/eldersign.gif

Just a little FYI

Hail Cthulhu

And?

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Nothing just an observation

Derleth's Elder Sign has become iconic though. Plus, it's topologically easier to draw a pentagram in midair than a branching figure.

I'm reminded of the Lovecraft quote "If anyone were to try to write the Necronomicon, it would disappoint all those who have shuddered at cryptic references to it"...that is, something about the little twig thing just doesn't quite live up to that visceral sense of ancient power that one expects of it

subochre said:

Yeah, the little twig doesn't do it for me either.

Or does it, I would interpret that statement to mean that, the Necronomicon is not what you think and therefore it could have a twig for a symbol

I also noticed another non Lovecraft element, "The Fire Vampire" is not from Lovecraft, but again from Derleth, so inaccuracies seem to abound in the game

Of course, there's nothing stopping somebody from fusing the two symbols together:

Well, a lot of the stuff in the game is non-Lovecraft, although Mythos-related. I don't remember reading anything about half of the GOOs in Lovecraft's stories, and most of the monsters too.

Tibs, that's a cool wallpaper right there

H.P. Lovecraft said:

If this game were comprised of only elements of the mythos introduced by Lovecraft, it would be a game with little content. If we were to discount the contributions of August Derleth, Clark Ashton Smith, Rampsey Campbell, etc. we would not have..

Cthuga, Hastur, Eihort, Chaugnar Faugn, Nyogtha, Glaaki, Ghroth, Y'golonac, Ithaqua, Shudde M'ell, Yibb-Tstll, Abhoth, Atlach-Nacha, Quachil Uttaus, Tsathoggua, and Zhar. That is a full 16 of the 24 GOOs and even some among those not included (I'm looking at you Yig, were created through Lovecraft's collaborations). Many of the monsters in the game would not exist, certain other worlds, and other elements of the game would not be there if this game was based exclusively on the stuff Lovecraft wrote. The fact of the matter is that it is a game based on the works of Lovecraft (not just the Cthulhu Mythos but his Dream Cycle as well) and the works that he inspired.

If this game were designed to properly resemble Lovecraft's fiction I believe it would be quite impossible to win and would be little to no fun. With few exceptions, there are no happy endings and few endings that result in anything but death or madness for those involved in Lovecraft's works that are considered part of the Cthulhu Mythos.I think that the works of Lovecraft and his writing circle are a great place to base an adventure/horror game and I am quite happy with the way that Arkham Horror translates the works to in-game elements.

As stated, the star Elder Sign is much better than the "true" Lovecraft elder sign http://home.earthlink.net/~presnell/sign2.gif

Acebob said:

Exactly. The King in Yellow play (also not a Lovecraft creation) in the fiction only has two acts, but that wouldn't work too well mechanically, so they added a third to make it more gameplay friendly. I'm completely fine with that.

Brine said:

The third act involves audience participation

Acebob said:

At least Chaugnar Faugn and Tsathoggua are mentioned in the works of HPL, although the description of the latter differs quite a bit from Smith's original. So, I suppose you could include those two with Yig and co.

-Villain

Skip to 5:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaJckcCZtBQ

Tibs said:

It's just a jump to the left....

Wow there are a lot more then I dreaded, I don't have the game yet so I haven't seen any of the monsters, beings that are a part of the game, it would be cool if they game could only be comprised of Lovecraft's monstrous characters, but what can you do?

Wonder if its possible to create a new version of the game with this in mind?

Hail Cthulhu

Well, Lovecraft encouraged others to expand upon his ideas so that a unified mythos could be created. A Lovecraft-only AH would be far less interesting and varied than the game we all know and love.

Of course there's nothing stopping you from getting the game, and then pulling out all the elements that are of non-Lovecraft origin. This might be fun for novelty purposes, but certainly not for regular games.

Arkham Horror isn't really "Lovecraft" Lovecraft. It's Lovecraft by way of the gaming geek revival of the 80s. I never would have even heard of Lovecraft if it weren't for Chaosium. (In school, Edgar Allan Poe gets all the gothic horror press.) I fell in love with Chaosium's Lovecraft, which eventually turned into a solid appreciation for the source material. And then some of the "expanded" material from Lovecraft's associates. But for me, "Sanity is a STAT?!" came first, and THAT'S Arkham Horror.

Credit where credit is due: we wouldn't have anything if it weren't for Lovecraft way back when. But the "Lovecraftian" stuff we have now comes from years of collaborative effort from hundreds of different voices.

jgt7771 said:

Amen jgt7771

Tibs said:

Really, embrace the _whole_ Mythos! Iä, iä, etc.

I have nothing against others taking part in the mythos, with the exception perhaps of Deleth who tried to force out dated Christian concepts upon Lovecraft's monsters and mythos i.e A battle between the forces of Good and Evil, which was not what Lovecraft wrote about.