What exactly can we discuss with the other players about our cards?
If we can tell everything why not put it in play visible?

grouik said:

When players are just getting started (like when I was running demo games) we did just that, to help the players and also give everyone a better feel for all the card possibilities. I'd guess though that once your group gets more experienced, you'll start beating the game more often so it's good toe keep the info lower level to help make it more fun. Plus if you start playing competitively and keep track of who kills the most stealers and keeps his squad alive, it makes more sense to keep the info more hidden. I'd say though that it's up to your group really - if it's more fun to just put the cards out, then that's the way to play!

-Tim

I admit to being confused by this also ... although we do always have fun muddling through.

What does everyone think?

Is it ok to say, for instance ...

"Well you can see that I played 'Move + Activate last time' and there is nothing I can attack ...."

It's no biggie really, but I know that others (in my group at least) are puzzled as to why we don't just say "I'm gonna support".

I don't think outright stating which card you're going to use is illegal RAW. As long as you don't show the card before all the actions are revealed, you can state your action by name as I read the rules.

Yup, this rule seems to make no sense at all in game that is 100% cooperative. I'd buy it in a co-op game like Arkham Horror where everyone plays together but the system rewards a "first among equals" at the end, but I just don't get it in Death Angel. I'd say play with or without the rule, whichever way you like. There's really no reason for your buddies to lie to you about their choices.

lexlloyd said:

Does your group actively "compete" for the First Citizen title in AH? I do calculate the score at the end if I remember (for Tibs' stat sheets), but I/we play purely to win against the game, nobody cares about First Citizen, mostly I just tally the total score, don't even bother checking who is First Citizen. If your group does compete for FC, do you ever lose because of it?

This is similar to a thread I started in 'Lord of the Rings' LCG. Unless there is some reason to try to outdo fellow players - apart from ego - in a purely cooperative game there is no reason not to show all cards. Maybe it was the designers attempt to get away from the problem of multi-player, pure cooperative games becoming a 'solo' game for the 'best / most experienced / most persuasive' player. Cheers!

I've only played AH once. I was just using it as an example because it's a co-op game overall, but the rules do include that one competitive aspect. I suspect that Rash is correct, the mechanism is included to prevent the most experienced player from dominating the game. Of course, once you get a little experience with DA you'll learn all the abilities anyway.

There are two reasons I'd be cautious about disregarding this rule.

The first has been touched on. In a multiplayer cooperative game, if all the players have the same information, then you can get into some bad dynamics. A single assertive player may cajole everyone else into following his perfect plan, which is no fun for them. Or the group may debate every single move, slowing the game down. These are bad dynamics because they aren't fun and turn people off to the game. I have seen some Arkham Horror games completely destroyed by this and some people swear off the game because they didn't want to be bossed around or have to participate in endless conferences. Too much like work.

The second is really particular to the Space Hulk setting. Space Hulk is a game of confused assymetric close combat. The Space Marines are constantly suprised, take amazing risks, and sometime die just because of bad luck. If a squad of Terminator Space Marines had time and space on their side, of course they could destroy all the genestealers in the universe without breaking a sweat. But that's not the situation. They are lost, confused, and tripping over themselves and each other as they race toward some hazy objective. People keep mentioning the movie Aliens, and with good reason.

Board game versions have historically impeded perfect play by the Space Marine player by imposing a time limit. (That's why there's a sand timer in the box.) You have to move your figures one at a time and you have three minutes to do it. You can't sit there figuring out how to get the heavy flamer facing into the big room while maitaining the rest of your defensive formation, you just GO GO GO! If that means the sergeant ends up facing the wrong way as genestealers boil out of a corridor behind him, well, you better hope for a good die roll.

So I think laying out the teams' action cards and letting the players talk through their options is just not very Space Hulk.

vad9m said:

"Han Solo: No time to discuss this as a committee.
Princess Leia: I am not a committee! "

Vad you raise good points. I've only been able to play the solo game so far. I'd like to hear what players think about the multiplayer versions. I agree that you don't want one player dominating the game but it seems crucial to have at least SOME level of cooperation, otherwise isn't the game ridiculously hard? Even in solo play where I can perfectly coordinate my action choices I'm still losing almost 50% of the time.

I think you should an agreement before the game starts on how much info you'll share with eachother:

- no info

- only remarks like: "I really need someone to help me here"

- remarks like: "I'm moving away, any one having a problem with that?, Other suggestions?"

- entirely open discussions only using the words move, support and fight.

- cards on table.

Just have fun and agree before hand so every one is happy with the info that can be given.