Cynr said:
dvang said:
I agree with Millandson. If you have a Talent with option choices, you may not choose an "illegal" selection in order to gain Talented.
The rules are not forcing the player to take the exact same Talent (for no benefit), which is what that rule was meant to alleviate.
Agreed.
Agreed.
HappyDaze said:
dvang said:
I agree with Millandson. If you have a Talent with option choices, you may not choose an "illegal" selection in order to gain Talented.
The rules are not forcing the player to take the exact same Talent (for no benefit), which is what that rule was meant to alleviate.
There is nothing "illegal" about selecting a duplicate Talent. If you agree with Millandson's houseruling, fine for you.
Your interpretation is probably within the letter of the rule, but certainly not the spirit! The sidebar on p. 15 is just a way out for characters who have no other options, so they don't have to waste a precious Talent. If one of my players tried that stunt you described, I would have a stern talk with him because I don't like min-maxing. You can always choose another Hatred-Talent or a different option from the Origin Path, but that's it!
Todtsteltzer said:
HappyDaze said:
dvang said:
I agree with Millandson. If you have a Talent with option choices, you may not choose an "illegal" selection in order to gain Talented.
The rules are not forcing the player to take the exact same Talent (for no benefit), which is what that rule was meant to alleviate.
There is nothing "illegal" about selecting a duplicate Talent. If you agree with Millandson's houseruling, fine for you.
Your interpretation is probably within the letter of the rule, but certainly not the spirit! The sidebar on p. 15 is just a way out for characters who have no other options, so they don't have to waste a precious Talent. If one of my players tried that stunt you described, I would have a stern talk with him because I don't like min-maxing. You can always choose another Hatred-Talent or a different option from the Origin Path, but that's it!
So where is your Tarot that gives you such insight into the 'spirit' of the rules?
And 'stunt'? It's hardly a stunt. With an attitude like that, your stern talk would get you laughed at by me or my fellows.
HappyDaze said:
So where is your Tarot that gives you such insight into the 'spirit' of the rules?
And 'stunt'? It's hardly a stunt. With an attitude like that, your stern talk would get you laughed at by me or my fellows.
Well, what's the point in having an Origin Path with limited options in the first place if you can get around it rather easily?
Anyway, it seems you have already made up your mind, though it should be clear from this thread that you won't get your version validated. Most of the posters have told you that your interpretation of the rule is flawed, yet you believe otherwise. So, why continue this line of discussion? As long as everyone in your group agrees with you, what does it matter if some guys on the Internet say something else?
Todtsteltzer said:
I'm still waiting to see anyone provide actual evidence that my interpretation is flawed. So far, no evidence has been provided that my "within the letter of the rule" approach is not the proper way, just unsupported statements of opinion. And you're quite right that these opinions don't really matter to me, but I'll give them the chance to provide more.
HappyDaze said:
There is nothing "illegal" about selecting a duplicate Talent. If you agree with Millandson's houseruling, fine for you.
A player is not allowed to deliberately the exact same talent more than once. The alternative of gaining "Talented" is for use when the Origin Path forces the player to take the same talent twice, which is normally illegal. Since, in the case of talents like Hatred, the Origin path is not forcing the player to take the exact same talent (the player has options to take a different organization/type to Hate), the player may not choose the same organization and may not receive the Talented talent instead.
This isn't a house rule, no matter what you try to suggest. If you want to house rule that players can choose to take the exact same talent more than once, then that is your perrogative, but it is your house rule and not how the rules work.
dvang said:
This isn't a house rule, no matter what you try to suggest. If you want to house rule that players can choose to take the exact same talent more than once, then that is your perrogative, but it is your house rule and not how the rules work.
Care to quote me a page number for that first sentence? Something from the RT book, or even the errata would be fine, but I'm a bit tired of unsupported claims like this.
HappyDaze said:
dvang said:
This isn't a house rule, no matter what you try to suggest. If you want to house rule that players can choose to take the exact same talent more than once, then that is your perrogative, but it is your house rule and not how the rules work.
Care to quote me a page number for that first sentence? Something from the RT book, or even the errata would be fine, but I'm a bit tired of unsupported claims like this.
Later in the game, the option of trading in a duplicated Talent for Talented (choose one) does not exist - this is a special feature of the Origin Path.
The issue here is whether it should apply when you're deliberately taking a duplicate Talent when the path gives you the option not to.
And taking the same Hatred twice, so you can worm your way around the rules and get Talented, well seems a bit skeevy to me. And I'm playing a character with a rather similar Origin Path myself. A veteran soldier from Cadia (Chaos), who was shipped out to go fight a war against a Waaagh! (Orks), and had the bad luck of being on ships that were frequently attacked by raiders (Void Pirates).
Ultimately, it shouldn't matter that much if its in the rules or not. If the GM allows it, go for it. If not, pick another thing to hate or take the alternate skill.
RPGs aren't like 40k. There really are Rules as Written vs Rules as Interpreted debates (or at least there shouldn't be). Its more like Rules as Dictated by the GM.
-Thulis
If someone tried to take Talented in the manner you suggest I would have the skill they choose only apply to when dealing with orks since that is the hatred talent you are replacing with the talented bit. I could see that being a legitimate and non min-max way of doing the swap and makes perfect sense from an RP stand point.