From a random gamer conversation, but what if it wasn't lost, damned, or traitorous but stricken because of a clerical error that the administratum refuses to admit? It sounded like a joke at the time, but the more we thought about it the more it seemed plausible.

Chapter?

Screaming Geckos.

I'm not seeing your legion in our list.

We're the eleventh founding. Between the Iron Hands and the World Eaters.

Sorry, you're not on the list.

Not on the list? We defended the North Gate of the Imperial Palace on Holy Terra during the Horus Heresy!

Doesn't ring a bell.

Our Primarch slew a dozen greater daemons and turned the tide singlehandedly at the Tower of Secrets!

Still not finding you in the records.

What about my power armor, bolter and genetically engineered status?

If your chapter isn't in the records, it doesn't exist and is there for traitorus excommunicatus.

You guys are making a mistake.

The Adeptus Administratum doesn't make mistakes traitor.

Howdy!

How about the Rabid Weasels?

OK, i will just put this out there, I do not like the idea of using those 2 legions, it is almost taboo or what ever you want to call it. Go for it if ya want, just so you know some people do not like it as much, however if i were to use them that would for sure be a very good way to do it! Good Luck

Don't think that was going to be the character's background, but it was the concept of a marine being from a forgotten chapter and nobody believing him because of a typo or filing error. Think he got the idea from the movie Brazil.

Hehehe, good movie!

Yeah, indeed, there could be a million reasons as to why they were stricken, error, corruption, excommunication, perhaps a Millennia-old plot to 'hide' the Legion for the end-time when it will be sorely needed... I've always wondered what GW wanted to do with those...

Hesporos said:

I'd have no problem using the lost legions, but referencing feats that their Primarchs supposedly accomplished is a no-no. Those Primarchs were lost and never recovered. Technically, those legions existed and were active in the Great Crusade, though.

And Brazil is indeed an awesome movie.

-=Brother Praetus=-

That is a solid point about the primarchs Praetus, that would make the most sense for sure to do it that way.

Brother Praetus said:

You've never heard of Primarch Tuttle? I still don't know what the focus of a chapter that exists everywhere except in history books would be. After about 10,000 years they probably would have given up on trying to explain what exactly happened to them. Still wouldn't want to be a scribe anywhere near one though.

Meph said:

The original idea of the 2 last chapters was so Players could create their own "canon" founding for either the Emperor or Chaos. It would allow them to cretae their own background, colours and heraldry.

I presume it worked so well, they created the second founding, which allowed the marines to be expanded, new colour schemes, and ofc more models therefore more money to GW.

This is the main reason i never really got into 40K, cost - and to field a squad was quite cheap when it came out, not the absolute jape for 2 plastic models it is nowadays.

That's also mostly the reason that I stopped collecting armies. Early on it wasn't that expensive... so I amassed:

10,000 points of Imperial Guard

3,500 points of Orks (ya gotta love em')

1,500 points of Dark Eldar (because I wanted to be different, lol).

After the time it took to collect that... it just got too expensive to keep going.

I'm very tempted to spend a little more money to get figures for my Deathwatch games that I'm running. My wifes Tyranid models came in handy for Final Sanction and Oblivion's Edge.

Scratch that itch mate. It's well worth it. I started painting again after a hiatus of half a decade or more and it's a joy to hold a brush again. Über-zen after a day at the office.

Meph said:

Zen is letting it itch though.

Alex

FatPob said:

I don't think there has ever been a time when there was only the First founding chapters (IRL of course) from the earliest description of Space Marines there were a thousand chapters.

It's as likely the that the original writers had big plans for those lost chapters and doesn't even work for GW anymore, the whole plot being forgotten like a mirror for this in game clerical error.

Although I'm sure at some point Mr's Abnett or McNeil will be given the authority to write them in. I'm,surprised they've gotten this far through the Horus Heresy series without mentioning them to be honest.

Face Eater said:

The original idea of the 2 last chapters was so Players could create their own "canon" founding for either the Emperor or Chaos. It would allow them to cretae their own background, colours and heraldry.

I presume it worked so well, they created the second founding, which allowed the marines to be expanded, new colour schemes, and ofc more models therefore more money to GW...

Don't remember where I read it, but once more if my brain is still working fine, that the two missing chapters are linked to the disappearance of staff members at the beginning of the W40K adventure.

Face Eater said:

Although I'm sure at some point Mr's Abnett or McNeil will be given the authority to write them in. I'm,surprised they've gotten this far through the Horus Heresy series without mentioning them to be honest.

Maybe am I wrong but i think we will know more about them in times to come. If my memorie is correct even if they are not first place characters we see them during the "dream/nightmare" of Horus when he's in the temple "healing" his mortal wound. When facing with his past and entering in the incubation room where all the primarchs are.

Face Eater said:

I don't think there has ever been a time when there was only the First founding chapters (IRL of course) from the earliest description of Space Marines there were a thousand chapters.

Maybe not when thinking about this new game some long years ago, but today official fluff is that there was at the birth of the space marimes 20 primarchs lost and thousand of their "sons" searching for them. That's why all the other chapters are chapters and not legions strong of thousands and thousands SM. That's also why all the second fondation chapters are linked to one of the 20 (18 of course) first chapters, having the same troubles with their gene seed.

Hmmm, I was under the impression W40K: Rogue Trader was released with 20 Chapters, of which 2 were "removed" in heraldry page.

The back story was that these 20 chapters had forces of untold legion at their disposal, however after the Horus Heresy, they were split and dsibanded into 1,000 chapters of 1,000 marines to ensure that no one individual had so much control over such a force ever again.

There are several references in the Horus Heresy to the legions having millions of marines at their disposal. Also in a couple fo the books they do make reference to Chapter XI in his vision, but that may have been false anyway, and I recall reading a mention of the 2nd

If I had anythought on the 2 legions it would be of the following possibilities.

1. In the chaos vortex that sent the primarchs to their "homeworlds", 2 were taken by the Chaos forces. From these 2 primarchs the great 4 working in unison (Chaos Undivided) learnt the desires and fears of these captured Primarchs, and with this knowledge discovered insidious ways to turn more forces against the Emperor. Knowing the religious quirks of the WorldBearers, they began a slow infiltration and the great plot that almost destroyed the emperor once and for all. The emperor knowing that 2 of his trusted were turned then proceeded to investigate ways of protecting the rest of his sons, and started the creation of the great throne, which when completed would host to his greatest psychic son, Magnus, and create an uncorruptable bond between his sons and himself, and forever be protected from the depredations of the chaos taint on his Adeptus Astartes.

The Emperor being so dedicated to his great task, and focusing too much perhaps on a future he had forseen, and believing Magnus would obey him unconditionally, the Emperor returned to the Terra Catacombs to finish his work

This also explains the Decree of Nikaea, as the emperor needed to protect magnus from the deviance of chaos long enough to finish his task.

But as we know Magnus blew up the Throne, so none of it could come to pass, and the darker future came to be.

2. The legions existed in the great crusade, but the actual primarchs were never found, and as such their gene-seed eventually dwindled. They were struck off due showing a failure of the emperors great plan.

3. They simply travelled beyond the extremes of the Astronomican, and as such were lost for all time. Perhaps out of contact with the emperor they eventually dwindled and died, or perhaps started a new empire beyond the known reaches of the universe.

4. A horrific mutation of the geneseed when implanted on others that was so abominable that the emperor destroyed the primarchs and expunged their records.

5. They deserted prior to the horus heresy beyoned the edges of the known universe.

6. The emperor hid these forces from all the other primarchs prior to the heresy having seen the future, and knowing in time to come they would be needed - this of course flies against the statement a full half of the primarch legions were successfully tempted by Chaos (10 of the 20).

However I 100% recall reading that initially it was for players to create their own legions and background fluff, and one day when i am not looking for it I will find it.

I personally feel number 1 fits best into the fluff even if it is somewhat ret-conned.

I find your number one explanation quite good. And it explain how chaos had been so good at turning the primarchs and their legions against their father and emperor. Thanks for it, could have think about it but didn't. lol