When did the dwarfs invent gyrocopters and other technology? Anybody got a dwarf army book to check?

jh

2205 Imperial Calendar

Other technology... might wanna be more specific

1022 they invented the steamengine, so don't base anything steam-related before that date.

The real question is more this, are the dwarves on the verge of an industrial revolution and is the natural progression of the world steampunk?

If so, they've been on this verge for quite some time now.

I suppose if Leonardo of Miragliano didn't provide the Empire with enough momentum to kick off an industrial revolution, I doubt anything will.

I guess since Warhammer has magic to aid them in some things, maybe steampower is not as much of an aid as it was for the real world.

The question should be why did they invent gyrocopters?

GW really destroyed the setting when the introduced these abominations. They do not belng in the Warhammer world!!!

Please, please FFG, do not put them in the dwarf expansion!!!

chrull said:

I think that is pretty much a no go on not putting them in, they are there, what FFG really has to do is make them fit the setting and not feel like they are something being imposed on the game. The reason they are in WFB is to give the dwarves some kind of flying contraption to counter armies with dragons, pegasi and so on. What FFG does really well is just that, take the things in the GW sandbox that feel wrong and make them right.

No gyrocopters? No Nurgle Plagueships? No Dark Elven Dragonriders? What a boring world...

Thanks for the timelines guys.

jh

Gyrocopters can't be the first option just to give the dwarfs something flying to be able to compete against other troops. A balloon or zeppelin maybe?

And if FFG should do something to fit the setting, it is not to **** the Warhammer world with steampunk. It's is not Warhammer 40K light.

Nisses said:

Is a college wizard really going to to power a cottonmill?

If the Old World were to follow the Real World we would see industrial applications of steam power being trialed. Water pumping to enable deeper mining being the first iirc. Having such a thing within an adventure isn't going to break the setting imo.

From a setting PoV I cannot see much progression. Widespread Steampunk would too radically change the flavour of the game - but then WFB isn't advancing the timeline very fast.

chrull said:

So by that reasoning GW "...destroyed the setting..." back around 1989 or so?

www.solegends.com/citcat89suml/c89suml-074362-2-02.htm

Let's not forget that gyrocopters and similar contraptions aren't exactly new or recent additions.

Yes, they broke the game setting early in Fantasy Battle, but our group ignored them as long as possible and ruled them out in WFRP.

They are not mentioned alot in WFRP 2ed (Stone and Steel page 51). And I hope they get phased out. Keep the other nonflying steam invention if necessary.

Having a flying device based on steampower and the likelihood of flying as a bumblebee is a really really crappy idea.

Dwarfs are supposed to be hardy craftsmen how invent things that are physically real and can work in a "realistic" way. Runes and engineering.

chrull said:

If your heat source was hot enough, your boiler was strong enough to take the pressure and you employed a high efficiency steam turbine, you could get a steampowered gyrocopter...

A few runes and the engineering issues aren't a problem. Essentially if you assume it is part magic it isn't so great a leap.

Leonardo Davinci made a drawing of the "helicopter" but he did not invent the machine.

It is not the steam technology that is wrong. It is the leap in tech. If the world is going to be 19-20th century, then why call it Warhammer Fantasy at all and still do the medieval setting? Why not go WFRP 20k?

WFRP has always been doing the ironic history spin, why make huge jumps in time and technology?

chrull said:

I second that.

Gyrokopter and SteamTanks are WFB we are WFRP

Two worlds similiar setting but not the same.

chrull said:

Brettonia is a medieval setting.

Empire is clearly a Renaissance setting.

Dwarf holds are another setting - a little steampunk.

W1nterKn1ght said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, I really am, but it is the same world just rolled back to just before the storm of chaos event. However it is your setting when you play it and you can do what you want with it, I'm just saying that we will most likely see these at some point, if not in the players hands then at least in the flavour material, also considering that the game leans on WAR quite a bit for artwork (lots of recycling) so they are bound to be in there somewhere.

Also on a personal not, steampunk is good for you, my warhammer game really got so much more lively adding the emerging canned goods barons, clacks and so on, don't go all 1850 on it, but it is early 1700's techwise, it has repeater guns and so on so its not far off and giving the players the feeling that change might happen any moment now is very driving, then use SoC to "reset" and knock back some stuff, make them feel like something was lost and you can keep it fantasy.

Also remember that fantasy is not always Tolkinesque it has to evolve and change as well and that WFB/RP was one of the first games to move that forward so if your looking to keep it all sword and sorcery then your actually looking at the wrong setting.

The wise one will eventually see....

The frog in the well knows not of the great ocean...

Emirikol said:

unless he get picked up by a tornado and carried a great distance, to be dropped with hundreds of his fellows near a beach. He will ponder: what is this? Than a woman will scream as it rains frogs. oh how sad

For me warhammer has always been "between two worlds". On one side it has its traditions rooted in a strong church (sigmar), and a possesive nobility wielding professional armies in the defend of the Empire. On the other side, it is on the brink of technological revolution (steam engines, blackpowder weapons), free thinking (universities, magical colleges) and Free chartered towns like Bögenhafen and a strong middleclass. Not to mention the Emperor`s ambitious Semaphore machine project. Which allows to send messages quickly from Altdorf to Nuln, or to other distant corners of the empire.

this breaking point between the traditional side and the revolutionary side, creates tension as it can clearly shift the direction of power. A noble can feel threatened by the growth of the merchant guild in his fiefdom. The construction of a Semaphore tower can upset the locals, since it built on fertile land. etc etc. this tension between the new and the old, is a vital part of warhammer. And it should be, since it will tell what direction the Empire will go.

good gaming

I agree. It should be a world that is on the move.

But flying machines are so far into the future that is spoils the setting. Especially a helicopter that is a very very complex machine belong to the 20th century.

Mal Reynolds said:

Is the gyrocopter the only element of WFB that you guys have issue with, or are there other examples?

jh

This is a roleplaying game. Why not just ignore them in your game? It's not like the whole setting will collapse, or the canon police will show up at your door and take your books.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Did you not see Scott Pilgrim, its the same as the vegan police 'cept with your RP books.

UncleArkie said:

No I haven't, actually. I'll be calling the spoiler police, now.