Having read through the section on orks im taking it that they are like the absolute bottom rung of orkhood in the way acolytes from dark heresy are?To powerfull for a normal human but not on the same experience lvl of a rogue trader group(ie they arent 5000 exp above a normal ork like a RT character is above an average human)?They still stand out marginaly what with some extra skills and fate points etc and the obvious happyness with hanging out with humies:) but in no way experienced?

I think Mekboys and Commandos are not beginning Orks.

Perhaps inexperienced isn't the right work, orks are born with combat knowledge and spend their whole lives fighting.

The right word might be "average". They start out as a fairly "average" ork where human PCs start out as "exceptional" humans. Even an average Okr Boy is the equivalent do 7+ average humans in combat.

An 'experienced' Ork would be a 'Nob, and pushing 10ft, and are true terrors, easily the match for a SM in 1 on 1 combat. The PC class is clearly an ork "Boy", bigger than a human but not insanely so and incredably strong without being able to toss around small vehicles. Being a Mekboy or a Kommando has little do do with experience, and everything to do with genetic predisposition.

I'll compare stats when I get home, but I doubt the PC class is significantly more powerful than the standard boy.

I was just comparing it myself and if you roll 10s average(i havent on my 2 dark heresy characters dam und blast:( ) and found that a ork boy from the creatures anathema would probably kick my arse,more due to the talents although WS,S and T are a little low.An ork freebooter from RT almost certainly would although spending fate points might tip the advantage with both.I figured that ranks not being counted that it would take me a further 1700 xp to be equal to a CA ork boy.So i was thinking that maybe the pc was like a really young ork who hasnt been around the block long as opposed to a human pc who are starting to get in the big league?So was thinking the ork is starting at 0-500 xp if you know what im getting at?

Yes, the CA orks are a bit better. But, a base freebooter is much better than a R1 DH character, so he's not at 500xp. He's at 5000 xp, like other RT characters.

Take the average starting soak of a freebooter (11), and many R1 acolytes would barely damage him without RF (1-2 w/ guns, a bit more for melee char w/ a monosword and higher than avg str.).

A base ork would eat a R1 DH character for breakfast, if he gets to melee. The ork is swinging away at ~40 WS + charge twice a round for 1d10+6 Pen 2 or 2d10 + 4 Pen 2 tearing. Average rolls vs a soak of 6 gives 7 or 10 (likely higher w/ tearing) dmg respectively. And he gets 2 attacks per turn, so it's quite possible he would take out an acolyte in one round. Hell, 10 is enough to put your avg Voider into critical territory.

A shoota or slugga is also better than most starting Acolyte gear, even though his BS is crap. Take the Shoota and he'll fire at 40 BS on Full auto. Not great, but not terrible. And the orky weapons are 1d10+4 vs 1d10+3 for most starter DH gear.

He's also got Iron Jaw, Sturdy, etc. to keep him going.

I totaly see where your coming from in that in melee hes harder than a DH rank 1,hell hes harder than a lot higher rank than that.But hes weedy compared to an average ork boy!A rank 1 RT character is far more impressive than a average human.When i play a rank 1 DH character i felt a slight cut above an average human,as a RT character im a mover and a shaker.If i was to play an RT 1 ork i would aviod an average ork in hand to hand cause he'd leather me(never mind a freebooter ork from the RT rulebook who are even more dangerous)so what have i spent my 5000 points of xp on to get there?A night out with wayne rooney?Tesco delivery maybe cause im a runt in the eyes of average orc.I've got skinny arms as i dont have bulging biceps so im sure i joined a RT dynasty to stop the grots picking on me:)

...and on the subject, I'm assuming if you make a Kroot or an Ork you also get the usual 500xp to spend on stuff before you start? Nothing is mentioned about this in the book so I thought I'd ask.

douglas9521 said:

There isn't really such a thing as an average Ork Boy; the 'common Ork' of one world embroiled in constant war may be a colossal monster compared to one on an isolated backwater. Orks vary significantly in size and might.

To the matter at hand, the difference is far less significant than you're claiming, IMO.

I wrote the Ork Freebooter rules, and based them off of the basic Ork Boy stats in Creatures Anathema - and if you look at the starting Ork stats, they're fairly close in line (subject to changes made due to playtesting): an average Ork Freebooter PC (11 to every characteristic roll, so WS 36, BS 21, S 44, T 41 (8), Ag 31, Int 26, Per 31, WP 31, Fel 26, and 12 wounds) has 1 less WS, 2 more BS, 2 less Strength, 3 less Toughness, 1 more Agility, 2 more Intelligence, 1 more Perception, 5 more WP and 5 more Fellowship, and the same number of wounds - this variation is well within the possibilities of dice rolls and point buy alike. The Freebooter lacks a couple of minor talents and traits that the Ork Boy NPC has (Bulging Biceps, Crushing Blow, Brutal Charge, and Street Fighting, which isn't in Rogue Trader), but most of those are easily accessible. The Ork PCs also have a greater number of trained skills and other special abilities, and noticeably better starting gear.

In short, they're not exactly identical, but the PC ones aren't exactly feeble, nor are they somehow incapable compared to their NPC equivalents. The Freebooter NPC in the back of the Rogue Trader book is harder, yes, but not that much harder. Personally, I feel that you're making a huge fuss about an insignificant difference. You want an explanation, fine: several abilities originally intended as being part of the starting package were moved to ranks 1 and 2 because the character was otherwise extremely 'front-heavy', possessing an extremely large array of skills, talents and traits at the start and leaving less room for advancement. A starting Ork actually having a small degree of skills and abilities beyond ways to take and endure damage were deemed desirable for character generation, so the abilities pushed into Ranks 1 and 2 were ones that boosted damage (Crushing Blow, Brutal Charge) or were otherwise completely pointless for a starting character (Bulging Biceps is only useful if you use heavy weapons; heavy weapon training isn't available until Rank 2, so neither is Bulging Biceps)

@ Space Monkey: It is, as far as I'm aware, intended that a starting Xenos PC have the same initial 500xp to spend as any other PC in Rogue Trader; certainly that was my intent, though I can't speak for Ross (who wrote the Kroot rules) or Sam (who led the project as a whole).

Thanks for the answers all by the way.And before i move on big thanks to N0-1 for the great job on orks,im gutted i'll never get to play one but it was great just to read about one:).I hope it doesnt sound like im making a fuss and i did suss that the starting ork was very close to the CA ork.I understand that there is no such thing as average but the mind still kinda drags you to thinking there is and with a written game it gets worse because you can see it on paper.Humans tend to have 30s across the board and anything better is ,well better i suppose lol.I liked the way that he was a tadge weaker in hand to hand but more broad in skills than the CA ork.It felt like a young cosmopolitan(if thats the right word)ork which is just right for a freebooter crew rather than a straight up bruiser.So i was just wondering if the PC ork is a rank 1 ork the end!If you remove 5000 points worth of stuff from a RT ork character to make a DH ork if you get my drift it means you've got some really weak orks inhabiting the galaxy some where.Im hoping this is making sense(english never my strong spot in school;) ) Just once again H0-1,thanks for the great work.Never thought i'd see the ability to play an actual ork but i think you've pulled it of really well.And good luck to any that get to play one:)