What happens when richard upton pickman blanks and copies a pillar of flame? Is it still a character? Does it still have 4 skill? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks in advance,

Do you mean the Guardian Pillar? I assume so.

I've double-checked the wording of RUP's Action. He can target his Action on the pillar while it's committed, but he gains Keywords and triggered abilities. While committed as a character it has Invulnerability, but no triggered ability. A triggered ability is an Action, Response, Forced Response, or Disrupt.

As far as blanking the text box, I'm not sure how it ought to be played but I think that by the time it is committed, it has become a character with skill 4, TCCC and Invulnerability. So by blanking it would lose invulnerability, but not the icons, skill or the card type 'Character'.

That's my best guess, though I'm not 100%. Anyone else think otherwise?

Syndicate
•Richard Upton Pickman, Genius Painter

Type : Character
Cost : 4
Skill : 3
Icons : CCI
Subtype : Cultist.
Game Text: Action: Pay 2 to choose a character. Until the end of the phase, Richard Upton Pickman gains that character's keywords and triggered abilities. Then, treat that character as though its printed text box were blank until the end of the phase.

Neutral
•Guardian Pillar

Type : Support
Cost : 3
Subtype : Dreamlands. Location. Mutable.
Game Text: If you control more Dreamlands support cards than any opponent, you may exhaust Guardian Pillar to commit it to a story as a character with 4 skill, TCCC, and Invulnerability.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: Raya Golden
Collector's Info: Search for the Silver Key F78

So let's start the answer :

Hope this will help you and everyone that should have an objection should add what he has to say

First of all, consider that the action of pickman cannot target the guardian pillar while it is still a Location. If you choose it during an action window which is not situated during the Story Phase, while the Guardian Pillar has mutated into a character, it cannot works !

Imagine the GP is mutated and committed into a story : You are the defender and you want to trigger Pickman's ability to commit it in front of GP. If you can pay the cost of the effect, you need to consider if the target is valid. GP is considered a character, so the target is valid.

Thus, it would work and GP would have it's text blanked.

The consequence being the text that gives Skill and icons will fade away : GP will have no skill, no icons, no invulnerability

If your matter was the fact that the card is CONSIDERED a character but still a location, we had an answer in the FAQ that said that once the card change type, it loose it previous type and every attachment on it...

Sorry everyone for the misname of the card, I typed it without looking at the card and for some reason in my head I always think "pillar of flame" when, as ppl realized, I actually meant Guardian Pillar

Prodigee, thats how I read the rules as well. In general, the game is very very literal, there isn't a lot of "Card ability X Implies Y", so if the text block is blanked, everything in that text block is gone.

Of course, the person I play with prefers teleologica's answer. He thinks that if its a character, its a virtual character with icons and symbols on the left, a textblock that says invulnerable underneath, etc. Theres nothing in the game to imply that kind of transformation ever takes place, so I wanted other people's input.

For the moment of course, I'm going to agree with Prodigee.

If anyone else has any opinions on the matter, I'd love to hear them.

PRODIGEE said:

Agreed. That was what I meant when I said RUP could only target GP when it's committed, I was being lazy by not fully explaining.

If you can pay the cost of the effect, you need to consider if the target is valid. GP is considered a character, so the target is valid.

Thus, it would work and GP would have it's text blanked.

Agreed.

The consequence being the text that gives Skill and icons will fade away : GP will have no skill, no icons, no invulnerability

This is where I disagree with your assessment. Just because the text fades away, I don't know that the effect fades away. It has turned into a character card with certain icons, skills and a keyword. It has committed to a story as a character. The effect that allowed it to does not exist, but does that mean you have to rewind anything the card effect caused? For example, the card must revert to being a support card - do you have to uncommit it from the story? You would have to as the game rules do not allow a support to commit, but they also don't explain how to uncommit a character card which changes type to support.

The FaQ says that triggered effects without a stated duration last for one phase. GP's text is a passive effect, not a triggered effect, so this does not specifically apply. But equally this is not exactly a passive effect. So the question becomes whether or not the card text allows the card to commit and to remain committed for the remainder of the story struggles; or whether it allows the card to commit only while the text remains on the card.

Personally, I take the view that it is the former - if for no reason than "tele's rule of least disturbance" by which you interpret a rule in the way that needs the least other rules to be bent to make it fit ...

But also because the closest entry we actually have in the FaQ is that Triggered Effects last for the rest of the phase. Not exactly the same, I know, and I may well be wrong here.

Hmm. Sorry for the odd formatting of the post above! This really is the least user-friendly games forum I've ever used!

I see merit in tele's argument that since GP is in some sort of effect limbo which isnt sufficiently defined by the game's rules that there is the possibility that it might not lose its skill or icons.

But at the same time, I find Prodigee's resolution more satisfactory since it is the simplest and most literal way of resolving the issue.

Because of that, I think I would side with Prodigee's interpretation.

Further rationalization for me is that since GP is such a powerful card, it would be nice to have one more answer to its abilities. Effectively neutering GP until Pickman leaves play since the GP has a good chance of being destroyed in such a vulnerable state.

hum, the real problem is to have a real rule with the mutable card, not just a point for a card in the faq. the problem is the same with the encounters ! So the rule could be:

- a mutable or encounter card loses is type when he is a character (it means it's no more an event or support card) > agree, yes or no ?
- a mutable card keeps is subtypes. It means a guardian pillar keeps is subtype Dreamlands. Location. Mutable even when he is a character, like an encounter keeps is subtype encounter > agree, yes or no ?
- a mutable or encounter card have a text box or printed text box > yes or no ?

Faq :"A card’s text box consists of subtypes and game text relevant to gameplay, including keywords such as Willpower and Fast."

So for me, when the guardian pillar is a character he have a text box, right, BUT is it a PRINTED text box ? If yes Richard blanks its text, if no he doesn't blank its text, that's the question.

Well, since we don't have any clarification, all we can do is guess and speculate. But I imagine mutable to work as though a new card was produced. So I think of the committed Guardian Pillar as a new card that is a character with icons and skills. In this model there is an empty text box.

Of course this is just my own personal take on it - there is nothing in the rules/FAQ that I've found to determine if this interpretation is reasonable or not.

Is this something FFG is likely to comment on in their next FAQ ? (as in, have people brought this particular card issue to their attention ?)

- secondly - (background related) - why is there a card of Richard Upton Pickman in one of the sets I just got that shows him as a disgusting and bloody-clawed Ghoul ? Is that something from one of Lovecraft's stories ? (I thought he was a demented Genius Painter for the Syndicate ?)

Rosh87 said:

*spoilers*

He is a Ghoul in "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" story, where Randolp Carter (IIRC, been a while) meets him. He is a painter in one of the other stories.

If you are interested in the stories (and you should be!) Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath covers most of the Dreamlands cycle (many of the cards are drawn from this story). The other Pickman shows up in "Pickman's Model".

Wow....I never knew Lovecraft (and his people/friends/literary descendants) wrote so many stories about all these things .... I guess Cthulhu / Innsmouth / Dagon - are the main ones I was familiar with before learning about this game and trying to understand more of the backstory.

I didn't know many of these cards actually had origins in these other stories of the Mythos !

* a note on Pickman....but how can he be a human in the one card...and a Ghoul in the Dreamlands ? Is it saying his "inner heart/core" is actually twisted and evil so in this Dreamlands place, your physical form becomes what is in your heart ? (so if you are evil and depraved, you will appear that way in Dreamlands ?)

We really don't get any explanation for the conversion. And there's really no connection story-wise between the two guys.

TheProfessor said:

The conversion is more strongly implied than spelled out clearly in Pickman's Model. But thats Lovecraft's style. The 'inspiration' for Pickman's paintings could easily lead one to beleive that Pickman eventually goes the route of necrophagia himself. Thurber even explains later on of his encounter with the artist to Eliot:

"He wasn't strictly human. Either he was born in strange shadow, or he'd found a way to unlock the forbidden gate. It's all the same now, for he's gone- back into the fabulous darkness he loved to haunt."

However, The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath does indeed confirm the implication of what became of that artist formerly known as Pickman. The connection is clear.

To Rosh:

The majority of Lovecraft's writing are now in the public domain, meaning it isn't infringement of copyright to distribute his stories without paying royalties to the copyright holder since there no longer is a copyright holder. If you search on a site called Dagonbytes, you will find most if not all of his stories.