Several things:

Are the statistics for a Scatter Round (p. 117) correct? It looks no better than a standard frag grenade, but is far rarer in terms of availability and is fired from a missile. Maybe the blast(X) should be more than 4?

Why does the pulse carbine have a longer reload time than the other pulse weapons? (p. 120) It's a full action to reload a carbine, but half for the pistol and rifle both.

Per the Lathe class entry p. 153), such ships have a dorsal weapon mount as well as a prow mount. However, the sample Lathe class, the Eternal Praetorian, doesn't have a dorsal weapon slot, and doesn't have a dorsal weapon fitted. (p. 165)

Sovereign Venture's SP total cost and weapon mounts are incorrect. (p.168) However, the ship entry does have the correct armament.

Arvus Lighter's tactical speed has to be a typo. No way a "slow" vehicle can manage 22 AU's as that is way faster than all the other flyers listed! (p. 180)

And one more thing... great job to all the developers and playtesters. I have yet to buy any game that didn't have a few bugs in, and overall this supplement impressed me quite a lot.

Cheers,

- V.

I noticed something else: What is the armour value of the Blast Goggles and the Rockhound Void Suit (both on p. 133)? From the fluff, it certainly sounds like both of them should have some kind of armour value, but I couldn't find any listed. Please advise, thanks.

- V.

Can the Q-ship take starship background packages?

Possible Into the Maw Errors:

1) Page 120.
The Pulse rifle is listed as a Half action reload, while the Carbine is a Full Action.

2) Vehicle section.
I believe the Rarities for Vehicles need to be looked over once more, as their are some things that just don't make sense story or game balance wise. The Land Speeder is listed as Rare Availability and its description keeps mentioning its 'rarity' because of the diminishing production anti-grav technology... yet is just as easy to acquire as the Rhino APC, something that has multiple Forge world and Hive worlds almost dedicated to its construction... that and its easier to acquire then a Motorcycle which is listed as Very Rare.

Core book Error question:
Should the Ork Choppa have the tearing quality as listed in Dark Heresy: Creatures Anathema?

Personal:
I have a gripe in the form of a question. Why were Space Marine vehicles chosen to debut over more interesting 'human' vessels? Why not Imperial Guard ships instead of Drop pods or something more Calixian or Kronus fluff based.

Why not leave the Scout Bike, Rhino APC, and other Marine vehicles to Deathwatch and focus more on 'human analog' technology. I'm sure a lot of players would have loved to have stats for the Valkyrie and the ork Fighter-bomber mentioned in examples then a Land Speeder or Drop pod. Both would be more useful and used game devices then the trying to make Rogue Traders act like Space Marines dropping in the middle of Emperor knows what without the genetic superiority that made such tactics feasible.

TK-4117 said:

It is in Deathwatch as well; this may be deliberate, but I'm not certain.

TK-4117 said:

Regarding the rarity of the Rhino... well, they're not exactly common anymore. The most recent background for them says that, while they were commonplace in the past, losses of knowledge over many centuries and millennia have meant that the ability to produce them is an increasingly scarce ability, so those that are produced are made for the service of the Adepta Sororitas, the Adeptus Arbites and the Adeptus Astartes first and foremost. The number of worlds able to produce the Rhino is in decline.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

And the Number that produce A-grav Vehicles are not? The sheer amount of Arbites and copy-cat enforcers on ever major Imperial world and the few that are not still puts it on a production level where getting your hands on a few dozen through the personal law enforcement of a Hive world noble house isn't out of the question for a Rogue trader... but how does that put it on the level of a Land Speeder's scarcity?
More importantly how is a Scout Bike have a higher rarity then ether when its comprised of simple technology and way less materials, with probably a fraction of the production time. Its a Land Speeder for Emperors sake, it has tech inside it that puts it far higher in the holy chain for the AdMech and its been made as easy to grab as a tracked armoured box with a gas engine. I just feel that the Vehicles need some time to be looked over, thought about, then adjusted.
Oh, and please don't say the Scout Bike is more rare because its a space marine only vehicle. I'm just going to throw in a rant about why the hell its there in the first place and not some more characterful FootFallen scum built piece of trash to zip around air ducts, or a contraption built for an imperial governor's law enforcement.

And the Number that produce A-grav Vehicles are not? The sheer amount of Arbites and copy-cat enforcers on ever major Imperial world and the few that are not still puts it on a production level where getting your hands on a few dozen through the personal law enforcement of a Hive world noble house isn't out of the question for a Rogue trader... but how does that put it on the level of a Land Speeder's scarcity?

Um... "copy-cat enforcers" don't get rhinos. They're generally the personal playthings of Sororitas, Astartes and the Arbites - the latter of which often have a single representative on earthlike worlds.

More importantly how is a Scout Bike have a higher rarity then ether when its comprised of simple technology and way less materials, with probably a fraction of the production time. Its a Land Speeder for Emperors sake, it has tech inside it that puts it far higher in the holy chain for the AdMech and its been made as easy to grab as a tracked armoured box with a gas engine. I just feel that the Vehicles need some time to be looked over, thought about, then adjusted.
Oh, and please don't say the Scout Bike is more rare because its a space marine only vehicle. I'm just going to throw in a rant about why the hell its there in the first place and not some more characterful FootFallen scum built piece of trash to zip around air ducts, or a contraption built for an imperial governor's law enforcement.

Feel free to throw a rant, but that's exactly what it is - a Space Marine vehicle. Which sounds about right for the bike a wealthy Rogue Trader would buy instead of a "scum built piece of trash". Take a look at the cover of the book and tell me that's not something a Rogue Trader would use.

TK-4117 said:

Rarity is far more than ease of construction; the availability of an item is dependant upon one thing and one thing only - how available it is to obtain. Many factors contribute towards that, but no one factor defines it utterly.

Consider the Shuriken Catapult. It is, within the context of the Craftworlds, the single most common personal ranged weapon used by the Eldar. Its availability is listed as Very Rare, not because there aren't many Shuriken Catapults, or because they're difficult to make, but because they're an alien weapon seldom seen away from their creator species.

As for why you'd obtain a Scout Bike either of Astartes design or patterned after it instead of a cheap Footfall junker... prestige, the same reason so many Rogue Traders do something. The actual reason the Scout Bike is in there is because there's one on the cover of the book; it was deemed inappropriate to not include something so prominently displayed.

Any ship can take a ship background package if you pay the ship points. Logically, a smaller vessel would have the extra points to do so as opposed to a larger vessel.

Um... "copy-cat enforcers" don't get rhinos. They're generally the personal playthings of Sororitas, Astartes and the Arbites - the latter of which often have a single representative on earthlike worlds.

After playing Necromunda for 6 years as Enforcers, I would be inclined to disagree. Bolters, cyber-mastifs, shotguns with executioner rounds, carapace armour, and when the vehicle supplemental came, rhino transports and patrol bikes where all common fair to a Necromunda enforcer squad, free of charge from the noble houses up above. Anything could be appropriated without cost to those well trained bullies of the Imperial Governors law, and I enjoyed putting down many hiver scum that thought they were anything but slime under armoured boot treads.

And the Arbites presents varies from the type of world. Hive worlds often have multiple Arbites Fortres Precincts plus a few facilities out in the wastelands of the planet. On civilized planets only a fortress in the capital. On a large Imperial facility not dominated by the Imperial Navy or guard or an Agri-world a few dozen could be left in place.

No matter the world they are assigned to, they are the first line of defence against unrest against the Imperium and will always have appropriate numbers to achieve that task if insurrection or rebellion becomes a threat. They will assist local authorities, or fight them if the governor is the instigator, warning the Imperium and holding the line until their death or the arrival of reinforcements.

Good books to read on them doing their work would be 'Nightbringer', 'Execution hour' and the Matthew Farrer's 'Shira Calpurnia' Arbites Series.

Feel free to throw a rant, but that's exactly what it is - a Space Marine vehicle. Which sounds about right for the bike a wealthy Rogue Trader would buy instead of a "scum built piece of trash". Take a look at the cover of the book and tell me that's not something a Rogue Trader would use.

I wonder were all that wealth goes when the thing tips and no one in the party aside from the Explorator's Servitor has the strength to right it. Cover art is cover art, and its always a selling point, but that doesn't change the fact that what a Scout bike is Built for a 7 foot tall (when unarmoured) monster with bones heavier the steel re bar and muscle thicker then twined cable. The thing probably ways the same of your average Car.

My point is that there are many things to make a Rogue trader look 'wealthy & connected'. Why not a modified Valkyrie? Its rare enough, reserved for Imperial Guard airborne forces and Inquisitorial Strike units, and you could easily get a good artist to do some kind of Apocalypse Now picture of a Rogue trader looking out the door of his personal aircraft staring down at a turbulent and hostile world with a very thousand yard intensity.

Also, a player would be more inclined to use such an item and it has far more utility then trying to work on something that you were never intended to use in its design. The reason the woman in the cover is probably holding that flamer is because she would look to much like a 12 year old trying to ride daddy's Harley if she was holding both the handle bars.

Rarity is far more than ease of construction; the availability of an item is dependant upon one thing and one thing only - how available it is to obtain. Many factors contribute towards that, but no one factor defines it utterly.

Yes, but how easily and plentiful its manufacture also is a factor on the availability of obtaining it. A lasgun might not be constructed everywhere, but the only reason you can find it everywhere is because tens of billions are produced every Terran cycle and shipped to the millions of worlds across the Imperium to arm Imperial guard units and Planetary defence forces.

Consider the Shuriken Catapult. It is, within the context of the Craftworlds, the single most common personal ranged weapon used by the Eldar. Its availability is listed as Very Rare, not because there aren't many Shuriken Catapults, or because they're difficult to make, but because they're an alien weapon seldom seen away from their creator species.

Considered. The Shuriken Catapult I'm suprised its not more rare, even though they are small arms that are massed 'grown & shaped' to equip each an ever Eldar probably from the moment of birth. For an human to acquire them they would ether have to be taken from their dead warriors, found in a vault of arms left on a abandoned former colony or Maiden world, or given to you by the Eldar directly (a very rare and equally dangerous situation).

As for why you'd obtain a Scout Bike either of Astartes design or patterned after it instead of a cheap Footfall junker... prestige, the same reason so many Rogue Traders do something. The actual reason the Scout Bike is in there is because there's one on the cover of the book; it was deemed inappropriate to not include something so prominently displayed.

And I understand all about the cover art debacle, and the prestige such a perchase would bring. But that hasn't changed or answered as to why it is 'Harder' to acquire then a equally exclusive, far more difficult to manufacture, and all out more powerful and useful vehicle like the Land Speeder... which is also used excursively by the Space marines.

A-Grav civilian vehicles can be found on some worlds (If the Cain Novels are to be believed) and the technology can be wide spread into common use of selet worlds. None would mach the technical aspects of a Land Speeder, but would be far easier to aquire... but then we are buying copy cats and then the same can be said for all the 'special use by Imperial militant orders only' vehicles if we take it away from the 'genuine' article.

Vandegraffe said:

Correct meif i'm wrong, but isn't the Carbine the one with the built in grenade launcher? If so then perhaps the reload time is for reloading both the Pulse bit and the grenade launcher?

TK-4117 said:

A Valkyrie? The average RT has one. By one I mean enough to equip his IG regiments (and whatever other forces he wants). Remember Imperial Governor, or Governor Militant is often one of a RTs LESSER titles. At a formal party he would be introduced like this "And may I introduce you to the Rogue Trader Severus Trask." Not "And may I introduce you to Governor Militant Severus Trask.".

Remember one of the things a RT does is to expand the boundries of the Imperium, often by force of arms.

Utility/usefulness has almost nothing to do with how prestigious an item is among people as powerful/wealthy as RT. He does not get a Astartes bike because it is handy to take to the grocery store, but so that he could make a statement by showing up at some formal function with other bigwigs, riding it.

llsoth said:

If I were a Rogue Trader, I'd insist on an introduction along the lines of "We are honoured to welcome Rogue Trader Jastilus Mercutia Lazerus Valonis, Governor Militant of Curian, King of Mercutia, Imperator of the Gronia System, Liberator and Protector Magna of the Pallon Subsector, Lord Conqueror of Karna and Kurna, bearing two and a half dozen further titles reporting his and his ancestors' glorious achievements...".

You know, at some point it would be nice for someone acknowledge my original question of 'why' a Land Speeder had an easier availability then a Scout Bike. N0-1, I know you tried but I just don't see how the bike is harder to acquire then an A-grav skimmer, especially when they are solely used by the same organization.

The rest of what I talk about are personal feelings, and reflecting my own worries as a player to what is important to me as a Agent of the Imperium and for my endeavours in the Expanse.

Besides, I'd rather show up to the local Nobility party in a custom made 86 cylinder, 18 wheeled ground car modelled after a 1930's Mercedes-Benz SS with a body made from solid platinum-iridium alloy and clear diamond headlights and windshields... and white wall tires, can't forget those.

As with many other things in an abstract intellectual property, this point can't really be made clear unless GW was to come out and issues some sort of statement explaining to the loyal and orthodox legions of 40k fans why this specific rule was penned as it was. The game designers have one opinion, and you have another. Maybe they goofed. Maybe they put it that way for design reasons, rather than fluff. Maybe you goofed.

Ultimately, I think this should be the part where you go and house rule the book so it better reflects your own personal gaming tastes. You've made your point that you disagree with the books stats. Leave things at that, and see if some errata comes out.

And I have to second the Mercedes. That thing is sweet looking.

TK-4117 said:

Additionally, in one of the Eisenhorn novels (Malleus?), they used a civilian pattern landspeeder as well. An enclosed passenger transport model. The things weren't exactly uncommon on the world, either if memory serves.

TK-4117, I think that the reason the Landspeeder is more readily available is that it is not armed by default, where as the scout bike must choose between the TL-bolters or the GL. That's really the only reason I can think of, and doesn't entirely sound right to me. Even where A-Grav is "common" a bike should still be easier to get a hold of.

*ShruG*

-=Brother Praetus=-