some rules changes i'm trying while creating some Days of the Fox scenarios
Halftracks can be suppressed, since they are open top vehicles this is an easy add.

When the squad in the same hex activates an at-gun it is fatigued instead of not being fatigued as stated in the rules. i know it's harsh but it is an experiment.

trucks can be damaged by suppressive artillery fire and destroyed by 3 successes. also a dramatic change but quite realistic.

so far i like how they work

BJaffe01

Hello Bill

Regards to your ideas about half-tracks / light vehicles being affected by suppressive atttacks, the rules of tide of iron already have vehicle supppression rules.

I thought that when a light vehicle is damaged it is fatigued straight away, the same as if an infantry unit is hit by a suppression attack.

Hence why heavy vehicles are not affected by suppression as much as 'soft tops' as they are not immediately fatigued by light damage, except of course M10's which are open top.

I also play the way you stated AT guns should work, infantry maning the gun should be the gun crew, manning the gun they either fire the gun or their personal weapons, you wouldn't be able to do both at the same time would you?

Some rules i like to bend are:

- Arty and air support cards always hit on a 4+ this is to make them a bit more potent, as in a lot of games they didnt really stand out.

-Heavy vehicles block line of sight, this allows to block paths of fire to allow other units ie infantry to move into better positions.

-Kinda scrapped the concussive firepower rule, instead if a unit has the concussive firepower ability allow it to use it firepower vs vehicles against the building. Also every time a building is hit (i.e before defense dice are rolled) place ONE building destroyed token or a crater token on the building for that attack. For every token that exists on the building hex minus 1 point from the cover it provides, if at any point there are more tokens on a building than the cover it provides ( normally 3) the building is removed from the game and replaced a rubble terrain hex. This makes tiger more devasting against building than say a lower calibre sherman.

- Like yourself I play that fixed gun tanks (stug, jadpanzer) can only move or fire. Also i like to play their AV as 5.

- Suppressive attacks i play a bit different as i thought the effects of suppression wore off a little quickly. I play that when a unit is supressed (pinned or disrupted) the relevent token is placed with the unit along with a fatigued token. At the end of the turn when suppression tokens are removed, only the fatigued token is removed (like all other fatigued units). If however an officer is present in a hex with suppressed units the tokens can be removed completely as per the orginal rules. This means a lot more units will be starting their turn either pinned or disrupted. NOW during the action phase pinned units may fatigue themselves to remove the pinned token and disrupted units may fatigue themselves to downgrade to pinned status. By playing like this it puts a lot more emphasis on where officers go especially the attacker, and makes the morale deck a lot more rewarding as again i thought it was kinda weak ( i the games i play normal fire seems to be the norm, however i only get to really play newbies).

- Machine guns with other units on the same base (ie machine gun and 2 infantry) take their range as 5 (max range 10). instead of using the lowest range (ie 4 for infantry). So a machine gun with 2 infantry would fire 5 dice at range of 5, machine gun and two elites 7 at a range of 5. This makes machine guns a bit more worthy on the offensive, it bothered me that 4 elites would fire at 8 compared to a machine gun crew (machine gun and standard infantry) at 5 with 6 to hit (as range 5 would be classed as long range for standard infantry) I know they get rapid op fire but how can 4 rifles outgun a belt fed weapon? at least now the benefit is the increased range with the total firepower of the squad.

i have a few more but i am ranting a bit and need to get to bed the missus is getting pissy! she doesnt understand the passion.

BJaffe01 said:

I am still not convinced that suppression is the best way to model open-top vehicles in the game. When it gets too hot, infantry keep their heads down and hug the ground for cover (suppression), but vehicles cannot do that, so I think they would rather drive someplace else where it is not quite so hot, and they cannot do that if they are suppressed. Maybe suppression should have a different effect on vehicles. They should still be able to move, but their firepower should be reduced since nobody wants to stick his head out to use the vehicle machine gun or look for targets for the main gun.

I would prefer to model AT guns with their dedicated gun crews of one or two figures instead of giving them a whole squad. These crews should not count for stacking and should be fatigued when they move or fire the gun.

I like the vulnerability of soft vehicles to suppressive fire. That feels right.

crazylog357 you have some good idea's in there. yea machine gun ranges could longer. the idea of a heavier machine gun not being able to move and fire is all right.

Klaus your halftrack idea may be best i'll test it out but halftracks are very vunerable to certain kinds of fire.

BJaffe01

I would love to see an expensive addition: an SMG figure. This would be great for Russian and German Assault Rifle/Machine Pistol/SMG squads. This could also take the form of a specialization token, division card, or other.

7times7is49 said:

Miniatures please, no specialization or cards... such squads would often get engineering or demolitions tokens...

I think its allright to fatigue the infanteri operating the AT gun. It kind of makes sence, and balance wise its simply to add one more infanteri squad to that side. Yes, two infanteri operating the gun would maybe be better, but I think that would make them unnecessary complicated. I like this game because its a good and simple. And being able to capture an AT gun is a fun addition which you cannot allow if two crewmen is automaticly added to the AT gun.

While we are at it, why not introduce rules where a halftrack and or trucks can move AT guns?

Trucks: making them more crappy on defense is fine by me, because i way to often find this moving into the front line, taking command points by them self... Trucks should in my opinion be given more meaningful roles, for example could trucks be combined with some kind of supply deck? For example, could trucks be used to replace to infanteri with a MG, given that the truck can move from the edge of the board, to wherever you want the MG gun? Create a senario where some troops are out of ammo (0 firepower) until a truck with ammo comes by? Allow one commandpoint to be given for each truck that leaves the board...

Further, when it comes to mortar, the thing which irritates me more is that a single mortar is simply a small irritation for the enemy, but a double mortar is a beast! Its such an huge difference. I think at the double mortar is allmost overpowered, while the single mortar is slightly underpowered. So, what do you think?

yea machine gun ranges could longer.

Sure, MGs may have a longer range, but at those ranges, the gunner or spotter would not be able to see any infantry targets to shoot at. The battlefield is no billiard table. I like the ranges the way they are.

crazylog357 said:

Those for rifle figures represent 10 to 12 men with rifles with the occasional BAR and SMG thrown in.

Grand Stone said:

Yes, yes, yes!

Not to forget one or two LMGs used by someone who has a clue.

sure simple rule all Halftracks and trucks can tow any at gun with one exception only Halftracks may tow 88's.

double mortars may be beast, so you have to figure on seeing it alot and adjust accordingly. oh and imagine double Russian 120mm mortars

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

Gun Transport: These vehicles may transport one gun (except 88s, which may only be transported by halftracks). To limber the gun, the vehicle must be in the same hex as the gun. As one action, place the gun on the off-board transport marker and fatigue the gun and the vehicle (or a squad in the same hex). To unlimber the gun, as one action, fatigue the gun and the vehicle (or a squad in the same hex), and place the gun in the same hex as the vehicle. With a gun limbered to the vehicle, it has only half its Movement Points (rounded up).

KlausFritsch said:

I like this a lot.

Klaus nice rule expansion of my silly quick reply

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

Thanks. This could be expnaded to include British tanks with tow hooks.

...expanded...