Since there is no dedicated forum to it yet, I figured one might provisionally start a topic about it.

Does anyone have House Rulings already? I don't have the book yet but I have considered House Ruling that every player must have prepared at least

two short psalms/prayers/litanies/whatever before a session to recite in the face of perils. Or in general.

Anyone with something else?

Alex

I have made all my Heroes make characters already, they have pasts and campaigns they are in, some may have met each other before and such, this in itself is not really a house rule, however i am allowing them to be from any chapter they choose, i have players from the Raven Guard, the Salamanders and Imperial Fists. Hard to change their minds about what chapter they want to be in, so my house rules will be involving making these chapters till that installment comes out. I would be happy to share ideas about this with anyone that wants to, cant really do much yet as the book is not in my hands.

Hesporos said:

Anything about the Crimson Fists yet?

Alex

Not yet, my Imperial Fists player is more a Dorn player i should say, so he may change, in fact all my players are tied to one Primarch in general, so we get rather heated in that sense, i think my loyalty is very easy to guess from my signature. However if we do make crimson fists rules i will be glad to share my thoughts and ideas.

Hesporos said:

I made up a chapter demeanour on the fly today in the corresponding new topic. Might give you a headstart.

Crimson Fists... Improved Xeno hunting talent? Probably. Something similar to your DA's Stoic Defense? Probably another option.

Alex

Xeno hunting talent? If i may where would that come from? i do not have a lot of knowledge of the Holy Crimson Fists.

Hesporos said:

From Lexicanum:

"The Crimson Fists have always had close ties with the Imperium and the Inquisition. They have contributed many warriors to the kill-teams of the Ordo Xenos, being renowned Ork fighters. They have also, at the order of Terra and the Inquisition, destroyed two chapters of brother Space Marines; the insane Sons of Gideon and the mind-wiped Marines Vigilant. This has earned them a reputation as lap dogs of the Inquisition among certain chapters."

From 40K wiki:

"During the nine thousand years of their crusade, the Crimson Fists became skilled at combating many alien species, most notably the Orks. These skills have been valuable to the Ordo Xenos of the Inquisition, with many members of the Chapter serving terms with the elite Deathwatch. In the novel Deathwatch by C.S. Goto, Captain Octavius, an Imperial Fist seconded to the Deathwatch; comments that no other Chapter has provided as many Deathwatch marines as the Crimson Fists. This and other cannon sources seem to suggest that the Crimson Fists are amoung the most highly regarded Xenos Fighters in the Imperium. Captain Octavius also ruminates on the loyalty and sense of duty possessed by the Chapter and it's marines. Despite their severe losses the Crimson Fists continue to second battle brothers to the DeathWatch. In fact, no less than one quarter of the Captain's eight man kill squad in the novel were marines of this Chapter. "

Alex

Hmm, then yes that would work, or the other thing you could do was some sort of social skill dealing with inquisitors or something to that effect, could be very cool indeed!

I had three players who wanted to use non-Core chapters: Lamenters, Iron Hands and Salamanders. Lamenters was easy enough as I just used the Blood Angel rules. The other two however I had to make some house rules for. I didn't allow them to be a Librarian so I wouldn't have to mess with psychic powers. I exported my file as PDF for people to use if they want:

http://www.deathguard.org/temp/DW - Salamanders and Iron Hands.pdf

Its just a simple re-use of existing powers and rules, but should do a good enough job to get people started. I figure I'll re-do them once the create your own chapter rules come out.

kenshin138 said:

Nice but I would always try to put a slight spin on successor chapters.

@Hesporos: If you play 200 years later, I think Hatred(Orks) will have to be included as a Crimson Fists talent. For completeness, I'll include my on the fly suggestion for chapter demeanour here (not fully thought through):

'Crimson Fists

Duty-Bound - Crimson Fists have been drilled to do what they are expected to do... even beyond what is the high expectations of other Space Marine chapters. When they are ordered to defend, their defending is exemplary. When ordered to exterminate xenos, their sense of duty will eventually turn them into great xeno-hunters. [The grim task of having to rebuild their chapter only heightens the sense of responsibility that every individual brother has. (That happens later in the timeline.)] Crimson Fists pursue a given assignment with conviction up and above the normal call of duty.'

Alex

kenshin138 said:

And they should have phenomenally bad luck....

I actually like the sound of that demeanor a lot! It gives a very good feel for how they would act, so giving them hatred orks and a demeanor to make them answer the call of duty, almost to the point of over-fanaticism (if that is possible for a space marine). This would also get him into a sticky situation, if they were told to defend and the others wanted to abandon the post, they would stay and continue the fight. I like that a lot!

What do you guys think about Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders and Iron hands? any demeanor ideas or some such? i will be thinking of some for sure!

I think people are focusing too much on demeanour and not enough on other sections for Chapters. House rules for chapters will have to include the following:

1. Demeanour

2. Stat-increases

3. Solo-Mode Ability

4. Squad-Mode Attack & Defense Ability

5. Advance chart

6. Past events chart

7. Chapter Trappings

8. Psychic Powers

9. Speciality restrictions

10. Any implants that don't work (Betcher & Sus-An for Imperial Fists/Black Templars for example)

11. Any bonus talents they may get (such as Heightened Senses (Smell) for Space Wolves)

The Advance chart isn't too hard to create really. The charts tend to have around 10 items and range from 200-1500 in cost. Seems most chapters get a basic skill of some sort along with the +10 and +20 option. A few other skills that fit the background, then some talents.

For Solo-Mode and Squad-Mode abilities I just used the existing ones until the Create Your Own Chapter rules come out. That way it didn't take too long and had some degree of balancing. You could make up your own without too much trouble I'd think.

Psychic powers I didn't touch though again you COULD just use another chapters list with different names for the time being. I got around this by limiting people who wanted to play chapters outside of the core rulebook to non-Librarians.

Stat increases are easy. Its typically +5 to two stats, or +5 to one stat and +2 wounds (or something similar).

Chapter trappings are harder than you'd think. Most of the items detailed in 40k are pretty unique/epic/rare so finding something smaller is harder. Things like wolf/salamander pelts and whatnot are easy, but some chapters could be hard I'd think.

Past events isn't too bad, I snagged a few from the charts and made up a few based on the timeline. Again, remember this is 817.m41 so keep an eye on events that have happened or haven't happened yet for this.

kenshin138 said:

For Crimson Fists after Rynn's World (aka after the default DW setting):

"After Rynn's World, the Crimson Fists found themselves in the interesting position of having more specialists than Battle-Brothers. The Chapter's Apothecaries and Techmarines have been forced to take on roles not normally assigned to them..."

Before it would have been pretty standard.

But I'd renew my suggestion that Crimson Fists should have a Last Stand defense ability. The infamous Space Marine pile (see 40K Rogue Trader cover).

Stats... +5 WP (stubbornness), the other +5 can be chosen among the other characteristics (the CF are Codex-adherent and thus resemble the Ultramarines somewhat).

Since I don't have the book, I better skip the rest.

@Hesporos: Yes, it has potential for disagreements with Ultramarines. :-) As well as agreements with the Ultras. Such a CF might agree at times more with the Ultras at other times more with the Space Wolves or Blood Angels and pushing on through regardless.

Raven Guard Demeanour... How about... 'Raven's gaze - RG Marines tend to be independent, calm, introvert and quiet, yet alert observers. They don't talk much but analyze a situation for themselves very closely and wait for the right moment to seize the initiative with decisive force. When Raven Guard's strike, it's either because they have located the weak point in the enemy or because they are forced to by circumstances. No RG marines can be rushed into action unless it's a pressing emergency as they are all independent thinkers.'

Imperial Fists... 'Curse of Perfectionism - Imperial Fist Marines strife to attain higher heights than all other chapters and they cannot bear personal failure. An IF PC will seek to castigate himself over even trivial mistakes and he will encourage other players to repent in the face of error too. Note however that IF marines are not more keen to punish marines other than their own selves. Redemption has to to sought individually and with an earnest heart. Instead of punishing others they will try, as usual, to lead by example.'

Salamanders... (they need to get an AG malus btw going by 40K wiki)... 'Promethean Doctrine -Salamanders are a largely codex-adherent but they also follow their own Cult. This cult turns Salamanders into much more down-to-Earth (and in touch with common people) battle-brotjhers than those of other chapters. Salamanders will seek to minimize collateral damages and urge other marines to do so. They are loyal, self-reliant and willing to sacrifice themselves for the Emporer or a worthy, humane cause.'

Iron Hands... (Iron Fathers anyone?)... 'The Flesh is Weak (chapter demanour, not talent) - In the minds of many Iron Hands, the machine is the ideal. Just as the Imperial Fists, the Iron Hands seek perfection. But where the Imperial Fists seek to punish themselves to greater heights, the Iron Hands seek to merge themselves with the children of the Machine God. Whenever Iron Hands have a choice between two round-about equal alternatives, they will always choose the more tech-heavy route.'

Alex

Howdy!

The Deathwatch Rulebook mentions the BlackShields as a sideline fluff so...

Black Shields-“Deathwatch for Life”
They arrive at the Deathwatch Watch Towers with their armor and their right shoulder pad painted black, and a hood concealing their helmet. They are the last of their chapters, sole brothers continuing the eternal fight against the zenos threat. Or they are lone brothers from the traitor legions that remain loyal to their oaths to the Emperor. They swear to spend their blood, and sweat fighting for the Deathwatch until death releases them from their shame. “We are not judged by the good we do, but by the evil we destroy!”
Starting Characteristics
+5 WS/BS/TO/WP, -5 FEL, and +2 Wounds
Starting Reknown- 0
Chapter Advances
400 Forbidden Lore (any) skill
800 Fearless talent
500 Hatred (any) talent
400 Frenzy talent
500 Paranoia talent
400 Hardy talent
800 Duty until Death talent
Chapter Ability
“Deathwatch for Life”- Black Shields can use squad mode abilities activated by other squad members as if they are from the same chapter as the activating member, while in squad mode.
Chapter Trappings
Black Shield Hood- +3 to Intimidate rolls

I agree with ya kenshin, i would like to focus more on the whole in general, i do not have my book just yet though, so i will offer all the advice i can while not possesing one, i will help out as soon as i get one though!

I really like those Demeanors, the IF would make for an interesting addition to the already zealous marines, i like these ones, gives a good all around feel to the chapter.

The Raven Guard one is really an all incorporating feel to it. taking in their silence and being partial to sneaking and surprise strikes.

Hesporos said:

Inteestingly enough, while writing I was most intrigued by the humane nature of Salamanders. That should make for an interesting enough difference to the mind-set of most other chapters wgo have their eyes more fixed on the supposedly greater good. The more human aspect should make them more easy to roleplay too.

Alex

Dont Imp Fists loose the spit acid and the sussann dont work

miss dee said:

Yep, just like the Black Templars in that respect.

True the salamanders humanity seems more intact than that of their brother marines, it will show in stark contrast to the Imperial Fists or Dark Angels who, while no not hate humanity, are a lot more cold and aloof, with other things in their heads.