Hello everyone.

I only started playing this game a few weeks ago, and have enjoyed it thus far. I currently have the Core Set, Secrets of Arkham, Murmurs of Evil, Whispers in the Dark, and The Spoken Covenant - AP's.

So far, I have only made up two decks - a Cthulhu // Yog Sothoth deck and a Hastur // Miskatonic deck.

I got to test them both and felt the Cthulhu one performed well, but the Hastur / Miskatonic one was pretty sad. Granted, there was only 1-test game for that one, but it failed to accomplish very much and got wiped out 3-Stories to 0.

One thing I wanted to know about basic Deck Construction is, what combos of Factions are generally considered "good together" - and why ?

Also - what is the point // theme of The Syndicate ? (looking at the cards for them that I have, I can't see too many that make me say "Wow, that's awesome and will be of great use in my games !").

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Secondly, what is the ideal breakdown of Cards (number of cards) in most decks ? Like...I've heard most decks should feature 30-Characters (appx) and about 20-support cards (which can be Locations, Spells, Events, etc. etc.). Is that valid ?

Then, when you are forming a dual-faction deck (seems to be the most common, right ? - going 3 or more is not a good idea, I take it ?) ....how do the "ratios" change in terms of what you should likely have in the deck ?

Like...if you have Hastur and Shub in a deck...should you go 15-Hastur Characters and 15-Shub....then 10-Hastur (Support) and 10-Shub (Support) cards to round things out evenly ? Or is there no set "amount" ?

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Lastly, I found in the Hastur deck, that they (at least with the cards I have) really lack solid Combat ability or general Toughness. As such, I find that when my opponents utilize fast-deploying decks (Agency + Miskatonic combo) ...I cannot stop his units to any great effect, or at best I drive 1-character insane, and then the Combat-character remaining smashes me solidly...killing my guy....he is then unopposed on the Skill and / or Investigation struggles, netting him 2-3 Success Tokens, despite my best efforts.

Is there any way to effectively squelch or slow this down ? (Fast opening decks with small cheap characters // professors // investigators)

What cards does Hastur have that I should focus on getting that would be good against "rapidly deploying" decks ? Also - is there a better Faction that tends to combo well with Hastur (other than Agency itself, which I've heard is really, really, good....) ... other than Miskatonic ... ? Is the lack of Investigation in the "monster" factions (most of them) a problem ? - does it mean I should naturally seek to pair Hastur, Shub, etc - with either Miskatonic or Agency or Syndicate for best effect ?

-Thanks for any / all ideas / answers and suggestions you guys can provide on these 3 (general) questions I've listed above !

I'm new too, but I tell you what I've found.

I love my events but I was losing fairly horribly until I started to make sure I had at least thirty. If you think about it, you start with eight cards to look at. Unless you have a really cunning plan, you need a 1 or 2 cost character in that initial eight cards; two such cards are even better. Doing some math, you need sixteen such scrub cards to have less then a 5% chance of that happening. And unless you a building a rush deck, you likely want as many 3 or higher cost characters.

So far Hastur has been the hardest to get a hold of. If I were to use him, I'd pair him with a blunt stick faction like the Agency or Cuthulu. While mixing him with my favorite Yog sounds like it could be a lot of fun, I'd need to find enough meat for the grinder (see above) from somewhere (maybe neutrals).

As far as no investigation. I've done it with Cuthulu and Yog. You just have to be really proactive on the defence, wait for your bruisers to develop and then mercilessly take stories the slow way.

Thanks for the ideas, Trader.

Regarding some of your thoughts:

- I agree on the rough number of cheaper characters that is helpful for any deck...as not being able to get guys out, particularly against some of the faster Agency / Miskatonic combos has been a cause of most of my losses against my friend, so far.

- I haven't tried Cthulhu // Hastur just yet - but could see how it could be effective, with most Cthulhu guys having the good Combat ability that Hastur generally lacks, yet still retaining the Terror icons needed to bring about the Insanity that many Hastur cards (Sirens of Hell !!!) need to function.

What I currently did, for my Hastur deck....was mix in a smattering of Agency cheap combat characters, with some of the ludicrously strong Agency "Direct Damage" cards.....and the dreaded Seventy Steps /// Magah Birds combo....and it seems almost unbeatable in test games against myself (Solo play against 2-other decks I have created).

Basically...in the test games....I seem to have a huge chance -%- of getting AT LEAST 1-Magah Bird and // OR 1-Seventy Steps in my opening hand, especially when I factor in the Mulligan rule (which, I have to say - seems overpowered since FFG haven't any penalty for taking a Mulligan -which they SHOULD..as in most games...like, if you Mulligan, you only get 7-cards (not 8) on the redraw and must start the game with that number, instead of the usual...

IF I get Magah (even WITHOUT 70-steps)...in the opening hand....and get to go first....it seems almost impossible for the opponent (unless they got excellent direct damage // death cards in their opening hand as well) - to counter it.

I go first...put down another resource so 1-Domain has 2...and the other 2-have the starting 1. Pay 1 (Hastur) to play 1-Magah Bird...and get to put the other two into play from my deck. Now I have 3-characters (weak, admittedly) in play and the opponent has not even gone. I typically also have 1-Shotgun blast or Agoraphobia in my hand as well from the opening draw. I say to the opponent (myself in my test games ! ) "you're up".

They draw their two cards, and typically put down a cheap character...they don't committ to any stories though, since they want to be able to defend the Magah's on my turn.

My second turn (Hastur/Agency deck) - I draw 2 ...and likely have 70-steps by now. If NOT...no worries, since I lay down another resource, and put out a Peeler (cheap Agency muscle)..or Nightstalker / Victoria Glasser - and drive their one character insane OR just play a Shotgun Blast for 2-and kill off the character the opponent just laid.....OR just use Agoraphobia (if it has no Terror Icons) to return it to the foes' hand.

Now I send in three unopposed Magah Birds, and take 2-Success Tokens on EACH of the stories. * IF I managed to draw and play 70-steps at this point, the opponent seems to be toast, unless they draw a direct location // support destruction card RIGHT THEN *

On the enemy turn 2...they draw two cards again...and either replay their character, plus maybe add a second one...or kill one of the Magah Birds with something damaging (or kill Victoria if she's in play). There is really little they can do with only 3-Resources (on one Domain) at maximum, at this point in the game. Maybe they send one creature in to take 2 or 3 success tokens at one of the stories (if I don't bother with blocking it).

My turn... is 70-steps out yet ? If it is - they didn't even have the chance to attack last turn - and have no defenders "readied" to block my oncoming attack... Even if it's NOT out yet....when I draw on my turn, I usually have another Shotgun Blast, a Shotgun Attachment, or a Short Fuse (give a target 7-wounds !) in my hand, and maybe another Agoraphobia or Victoria (or some other Hastur terror-creature). I can play another creature destroyer, killing off another potential blocker, and sending in the remaining birds/creatures on at least two of the stories. I generally will have 4-success tokens on two stories at this point..maybe all 3 (if I got 70-steps in play by now). There seems to be no way for the opponent to come back from that, if the combo works right.

This seems pretty powerful (Broken ?) - given that I am a new player - and lacking in overall CoC experience (though, as I've mentioned before, I'm a quick learner and understand tactics/strategy for Card Games like this - from some years of past MTG play)......yet I am able to basically take a 2-card combo (Magah Birds + Seventy Steps) and walk all over my opponents in my testing games ? Isn't that a sign something is too powerful as a combo ?

I was unaware of the Mulligan Rule, with that in effect you only need nine scrubs to ensure a 95% chance of a playable character. (As an interesting sidenote, the Mulligan rule also makes it so you can get any card that has three copies in you deck 63% of the time.) But if you stick with sixteen you can mulligan after specific cards without really risking an empty tabletop.

I can think of several ways/cards to counteract the birds. I don't think they are the problem. I've gotten three characters on the board in one turn without using them. I think it's the Seventy Steps that have the issue. (Although a good Syndicate deck could maybe get around them.) My suggested fix would be:

Forced Reaction: Sacrifice this card or exhaust a character you do not control.

I'm curious about people who use Magahs. Don't you ever draw 2 or 3 of them in your starting hand? When I had them in my Hastur deck, that seemed to be the issue. Since you can only search your deck for Magahs, those in hand have to be played normally, paying the costs.

Rosh87 said:

I thought the competitive players with more experience would have weighed in by now, but since they havent here are some resources I found helpful when starting.

These article were made during the CCG days, but they are still mostly relevant, especially for a beginner. Note the max cards in the LCG are three where as they were four during the time of the CCG when gleaning how to work these articles to be useful in this new format.

1) boss.sverok.net/CoC/buddyfactionsEE.html

2) www.chris-long.com/cthulhu/articles/faction-guide.cfm

3) boss.sverok.net/CoC/deckbuildingbasics1.html

Hope that helps.

As for ratios in multifaction decks, its tricky to say. My Cops and Robbers (Agency/Syndicate) deck has just about an equal percentage of each card type for each faction in the deck to help with resourcing.

My Yog mill deck is predominantly Yog, but has about 11 Hastur cards that are relevant to the discard mechanic in it, all of the hastur cards are important and in multiples to ensure proper resourcing as well as playability. A couple Shub snow graves to ensure what goes away stays away.

Fine tuning the tempo of a deck is an art in itself and if you have played M:tG with any sort of length of time prior to this game the term should be already known. Basically, enough cards to ensure all turns of the game are useful for playing cards with constant resource placement. A number of single resource cost cards, 2 resource cost cards, etc. Its a bit different in how it is instituted in COC than it is in M:tG, but the basic overall premise is relevant.

TraderJB said:

To me it is Magah birds that is too powerful due to being able to tutor them out of the deck. Tutor is quite powerful since this increases the chances of drawing more relevant cards later on with greater accuracy. Tutor on top of being Fast for the cost with no drawbacks is a design choice that is easily able to be criticized after the fact. Though M:tG is no better *coughSkullClampcough* in that regard either so James Hata shouldn't read it as being too critical of his job.

If it were me designing that card knowing what we know now about current card interactions (especially with Seventy Steps) I would have made the Magah Birds have the following addition of a single word at the end of the sentence:

Response: After Magah Bird enters play, search your deck for a character named Magah Bird and put it into play exhausted .

This gives the opponent some chance of delaying the onslaught by being able to defend at least one story or more by the time Magah Birds are ready. I would imagine that Magah Birds are still a really great card with that change, just not so over the top. Avoiding playing Seventy Steps prior to playing Magah Birds will no longer grant such an outrageous advantage and stall.

Seventy Steps I feel is fine since it has a shared drawback. But I do like the proposed drawback you made. I just feel it would be easier to errata Magah Bird with the additional word than to add more to the Seventy Steps in errata. (Lets face it, one of those cards will be facing such scrutiny soon if not already by Hata)

Hellfury said:

Usually Magah Birds come into play on the very first turn, where noone can commit to stories. Being exhausted has no strong effect. They are not going to be used to block stories, they are going to be used to attack on the second turn.

Yeah - basically...with the Mulligan Rule....you (me in my test games) tend to end up with AT LEAST 1-Bird and / or 1-Seventy Steps, with the other (if not in starting hand) - found shortly thereafter. If you get to go first..and play 3-Birds + 1 Seventy Steps (after the birds have been played) - you are almost unstoppable unless your foe is playing with some kind of Cthulhu / Yog deck with 3-each of Sacrificial Offerings, Deep One Assault, A Single Glimpse, Cursed Skull, and possibly Pulled Under. You have to hope to (on your first turn- before the Birds have been able to move in) - put down TWO of them and possibly put into play a character (hopefully !) - even if they must enter Exhausted.

With 2-resources on 1-domain and 1-each on your other two, you could play (in this order) Sacrificial Offerings (kill 1 of the Magah's) ....play a second if you have it ....and kill another bird - or play a Cursed Skull and pay to activate it...or A Single Glimpse, to another bird. With your other resource (if available), you might be able to play a 1-cost character (like Innsmouth Troublemaker or something similiar).

Now the Hastur Steps have some issues. They are down (hopefully for you) 2-Birds...and have 1-Bird left. They will probably play some other character though, maybe Victoria G. or a Nightstalker (who knows) ...and attack again...since your character has come into play Exhausted, you can't do much but watch as they put 2 more tokens (now have 4 !) on 1 other story (with the last of the Birds). You haven't gotten anything (Success Tokens) going yet !!!

It's your turn...your Troublemaker (or whoever) refreshes....and you add another resource to your domains....hopefully you will have drawn some other character destruction card....and if so, you can off the last bird or whatever other monster your foe has put out by now. Play another character and keep the guy you have there for defense (the birds die easily, if they are actually in a fight).

MAYBE - at that point...you have held them off and the game can proceed "naturally" - from there....but consider what the game board looks like now ? They have 2-Tokens on two stories and a massive 4-Tokens at the third !! You have (in this above scenario) ZERO tokens.... and yet you have a deck geared heavily for character killing...and have (we assume for this example) drawn "everything you needed" to try and kill of the Birds.

So if it takes that much "preparation and luck of the draws" - to merely "halt" the rush of that Birds-Steps combo.... what does that say about the combo ??

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- To Dam - I think, with the Mulligan Rule, that unless you have two really unfortunate draws in a row, you are not that likely to get more than 1-Bird in your starting hand. Obviously this can always happen (with the randomness of a shuffled deck and what you draw for the Mulligan hand)....but it seems pretty rare in my test games. Even if I do get two in the hand, it's still not a big deal, especially if I get a Seventy-Steps as well. I can pay 1 to play one of the Birds from my hand.....go fish the 2nd one out of the Deck and put that into play...and pay 1-legitimately - to place the third from my hand with my 2nd Domain. My 3rd domain goes to playing down 70-steps now....and the opponent is in the exact same "Oh Crap !" - position as if I'd only had the one Bird in my hand at start. All it has cost me is 1-extra resource/domain - but since it's first turn anyways, it's not like I have a lot of things to worry about saving that 1-resource point for !

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* * - One thing they might end up doing, is abolishing or modifying the Mulligan Rule. IMHO it should be used as a way to let a player get out from a wretched draw with 0-Characters - (which can be really bad in this game, as I have found quickly !) ....but there should be SOME penalty for opting to go for it. The way it is now, it is essentially a "draw 8-cards....if you don't get the cards you need for your opening-game combo(s)....announce Mulligan...reshuffle your cards and deck...and draw a fresh 8-cards...basically doubling the chances that you will end up with what you wanted all along...".

They might/should consider a penalty of 1-2 cards for going with the Mulligan....as in ...draw-8 cards...see what you have...if you really don't like it...announce Mulligan useage....reshuffle...but now draw only 6-cards....you MUST keep that second hand (whatever the 6-cards are).

That might make people a lot more hesitant to use the Mulligan...as the way it is now, there is absolutely no penalty (and thus no reason not to) for choosing to use the Mulligan Rule !

Rosh87 said: