1.) If a Marine has the Bring Death from Afar Power Armor History can he use a Heavy Flamer (or other such Heavy Weapon) one-handed?

2.) If the answer above is yes, can he then dual-wield Heavy weapons, with the Two-Weapon Wielder talent?

3.) Can a heavy weapon equipped character also wear a Jump Pack and only carry one clip for the Heavy Weapon?

4.) If the answer to question 1 is yes, are there any associated penalties that should be applied to the combat check?

1.) If a Marine has the Bring Death from Afar Power Armor History can he use a Heavy Flamer (or other such Heavy Weapon) one-handed?

No, this doesn't let you use any weapon one-handed. Here is the breakdown why:

1. Bring Death from Afar is worded: "the wearer may count any heavy weapon he wields as a basic weapon for the purposes of moving and firing on semi- or fully-automatic fire"

2. Full Auto Burst is worded: "A character using this Action with a Pistol- or Basic-class weapon may also move up to his Agility Bonus in metres."

So, with Bring Death from Afar you are allowed to move up to your Agility Bonus in metres after doing a semi or full-auto-burst with a heavy weapon. That is the intent and the wording of the rules. Also if you notice all the flame weapons are S/-/- which means no "bursts", instead they have the flame special rule. So Bring Death From Afar does nothing for a Heavy Flamer.

2.) If the answer above is yes, can he then dual-wield Heavy weapons, with the Two-Weapon Wielder talent?

No, because he can't wield a heavy weapon on-handed.

3.) Can a heavy weapon equipped character also wear a Jump Pack and only carry one clip for the Heavy Weapon?

From the section on Astartes Backpack Ammo Supply: "Backpack Ammo/Power supplies weigh 40kg and are automatically issued with any heavy weapon." So by default you get the backpack ammo supply, which is the intent. Far as I can tell there aren't "clips" for Astartes heavy weapons. I know I wouldn't allow this in my games because it is obviously trying to take advantage of the rules IMHO rather than the spirit/intent. I mean, have you ever seen a jump pack equipped heavy weapon user in 40k? So I'm not 100% sure that the rules prevent this, but if it is a loophole then either it needs an errata or just a house-ruling that heavy weapons require the use of the backpack ammo supply.

4.) If the answer to question 1 is yes, are there any associated penalties that should be applied to the combat check?

The answer is No.

Thank you for the rule clarification.

*Waves at GM*

Thanks for the clarification, Kenshin138!

I agree with you totally on 1, 2, and 4. After going back through the descriptions of Heavy class weapons and the combat rules, it all makes sense.

In terms of 3, I'm still on the fence. The Heavy Flamer (and all heavy weapons) does have a clip size listed for them. The backpack allows for more ammo capacity. So, in the case of the Heavy Flamer the clip holds 10 shots, whereas the backpack holds 75. So, this appears to make the backpack an automatic upgrade, but not necessarily a compulsory one. This concept even bears out in the models. For example, a Terminator's Heavy Flamer has a clip rather than a large fuel tank feed and the scout Heavy Bolter (which would count as an Astartes weapon) has a clip rather than a backpack. So, I could see missions where it is deemed appropriate to leave the backpack behind. Although, once the clip has run out the Heavy weapon become more of a tactical liability than anything else.

In terms of equipping with a jump pack, I am also very conflicted. On one hand, I can totally see a marine utilizing his enhanced abilities to get close to the foe and unleash the Emperor's judgment in a wide spray of promethium. On the other hand, I'm sure the Codex Astartes has a lot to say about this kind of dangerous and aberrant use of dedicated wargear. In terms of WH40K, the ability to equip Assault Marines with Heavy Flamers would have far too much potential to unbalance the game (or be point-cost prohibitive). But, in terms of the Deathwatch, I could see it happening. So, while I definitely don't see an Ultramarine every using this tactical load out, I could easily see a Codex adherent chapter trying it out.

In the end, I don't see this as a game breaker. The limited clip size, inability to wield one-handed, and lack of ability to fire a Heavy weapon in close combat make this a dangerous, yet interesting, tactic. Sure the marine gets to in and make one big, massive hit, but then he will most likely be stuck in close combat with a 65 pound dead weight cradled in his hands. The other Heavy weapons don't really make sense for this tactic due to their firing modes, but I could see someone trying this with a Multimelta.

As a GM, I think I'd be willing let a player run with it and see how it works out. (But, I am in the habit of being a fairly indulgent GM.)

*Waves back at honored battle brother*

kenshin138 said:

The rule is essentially the same in Rogue Trader - full-auto and semi-auto are full actions normally (which preclude movement), but basic- and pistol-class weapons on those modes allow the wielder to move and fire to a limited degree by losing the normal bonus (for semi-auto) or suffering a -10 penalty to hit instead (for full-auto). The movement in this action is equivalent to a half move action.

kenshin138 said:

While I don't know the specifics of the Deathwatch version of the rule - it may differ from the version in Rogue Trader - I'm not sure that the move is required to take place after the shooting.

Either way, it's irrelevant in the case of a Heavy Flamer - being unable to fire on semi- or full-auto, a heavy flamer only takes a half action to fire, meaning that you've got the other half action free for movement... which ends up with the same end result (move Agility Bonus metres and shoot with a weapon).

I would never let any player dual wield a heav y weapon. That's just common sense.

Artemesia said:

In the light of D&D, I'd say: what does common sense have to do with role-playing? ;-)

Alex

ak-73 said:

In light of World of Darkness, Call of Cthulhu, Unknown Armies, and most other horror based games I know... because not using common sense gets you killed/insane/corrupted (delete as appropriate)?

kenshin138 said:

#cough# I hate to play devils advocate but Dark Eldar Scourges are Heavy Weapon Jump Infantry. But then they are Dark Eldar, and even their "heavy" weapons are **** light.

This topic reminds me painfully of a player who wants to mount heavy weapons on his Secutor's gun mechandrites #shudders#.

Anyway GMs generally say no to this sort think as dual wielding heavy weapons is very munchkin like. As for the big gun and jump pack I suspect it would over balance you too much for controled flight, and even if it was possible you'd have considerably less ammo.

Darkshroud said:

Our group had the idea during the first battle in Final Sanction to use the Devastator's magnetic boots to stand on the back of the assault marine while the other members hoisted the assault marine up in a "Superman" pose before throwing him and activating his jump pack, allowing the Devastator to surf on his back while unloading into the hordes of rebels.

We are terrible, terrible people. I'm just not sure in what way.

MILLANDSON said:

In the case of CoC lack of common sense (intelligence attribute?) seems to at least spare you temporary insanity iirc.

Alex

Artemesia said:

*Blinks*

*Gasps*

*Blinks again*

That's.... wow...

Meph said:

It didn't happen because I'm better than that, but the fact that my players came up with it fills me with both pride and shame.

Artemesia said:

Kill'em. Kill'em all. LOL.

Alex

ak-73 said:

And let the emperor sort out his own.

Doest Bolt Mastery (Tactical Marine) also apply to heavy bolters, I don't have the book yet but I've improvised a marine in my DH campaign...

Yes, i believe it does apply to a heavy bolter as it is a bolt weapon.

I would never let two people ride on 1 jump pack, they are JUMP packs not jet packs. I see them as giving thrust, not really a way to "Fly" them, that is just me though.

Yes, jet packs exist, if you are eldar.

Well actually they are jetpacks, they give you the Flyer (12) trait for several minutes at the time, this would allow you to reach heights far beyond jumping heights, even with a pack....

Artemesia said:

If my group tried this I would hurt them very, very, badly.

The Heavy Flamer has always been an odd duck in 40K.

In the miniatures game it's str 5 and thus a standard vehicle can't fire more than that if it moves, however for infantry it is an Assault weapon that allows moving and firing and Assault.

And Guardsmen carry it around, a single Guardsmen even (not sure what's up with Kreig).

I could see a Jump pack equipped marine with a Heavy Flamer or a Missile Launcher with reduced ammo as those two are the most 'contained' weapons. The heavies like the Plasma & Las cannons and Heavy Bolter are backpack power source dependant however I think Heavy Bolter ammo clips would be fine.

And weapon modifications are what Techmarines are for! Tech heresy is best heresy!

Here is the origin of the query:

Bring Death from Afar is worded: "the wearer may count any heavy weapon he wields as a basic weapon for the purposes of moving and firing on semi- or fully-automatic fire"

On the character sheet under POWER ARMOUR ABILITIES "Recoil Suppression: May fire Basic weapons 1-handed without penalty"

Let's also not forget that Space Marines have the Bulging Biceps talent, which also lends itself to Heavy Weapons use.

A lot of possible cross-over abilities here.

MILLANDSON said:

or all of the above

Santiago said:

Darq said:

It didn't go through nor was it serious. It was one of those "hur hur hey guys lets do this" bull ideas that we explored for a few minutes and then said "okay but seriously."