signoftheserpent said:
A year on from RT and still only Kroot and Ork?
What were you expecting? It's the first non-adventure sourcebook in the line, and it isn't a quick process to produce these books.
Just got Into the Storm: Well Done FFG a superb product.
I must say that the rules for having xenos aboard and the explanation how you can transport them to civilised area's is well done. The Kroot is an excellent choice here as that is a race known for working for everybody. Plus they are pretty good in the outdoors which is a role not yet touched by the normal characters. The RT who takes an Orc aboard is taking a huge risk though. Before you know it, especially since the Orcs are a known hostile Xenos threat.
I so want to play one though. Just imagine an Ork Mek wanting to improve the Warp Drive 
Very good supplement indeed. Has very much renewed my interest in the game. Am now going to run that Ork space pirates game I've had in the planning.
Sister Callidia said:
I so want to play one though. Just imagine an Ork Mek wanting to improve the Warp Drive
What an "arguement" that would start with the AdMech Adeptus in the Drive section. Hell, a Mekboy "infestation" would be a hilarious problem for a crew. They keep trying to "fix" the ship. The AdMech has no idea what is happening as systems are failing. The Crew is getting annoyed because they keep having to wear their Void suits.
I think I shall make this an encounter for my group once the game kicks off and they have met Orks. Maybe they ended up with some Spores on them or a curious Mekboy stowed away on their Gun-cutter.
Nalroth said:
Sister Callidia said:
I so want to play one though. Just imagine an Ork Mek wanting to improve the Warp Drive
What an "arguement" that would start with the AdMech Adeptus in the Drive section. Hell, a Mekboy "infestation" would be a hilarious problem for a crew. They keep trying to "fix" the ship. The AdMech has no idea what is happening as systems are failing. The Crew is getting annoyed because they keep having to wear their Void suits.
I think I shall make this an encounter for my group once the game kicks off and they have met Orks. Maybe they ended up with some Spores on them or a curious Mekboy stowed away on their Gun-cutter.
Actually it would make an intresting possibility of adding orky ship components. As far as I know when it comes to ships orks are undisputed masters in three areas where they even rival the eldar:
Teleportaz
Trakta Beams
Force Fieldz
(Their time honoured method of dragging a hulk towards a planet teleporting unto it and then putting a force bubble to keep the warp out and the atmosphere in while the waaagh across the galaxy)
Imagine the 'kustom' improvements he could make to a ship. Mind you the fluff sort of implies that they only work because a ork is operating it apparantly the mechanicus opened up ork shooters and sometimes found no discernable working parts leading them to speculate that the weapons work because they ork expect them to work. Or something.
Precisely and that is why I won't be having any Orcs in my campaigns. My players woulod turn it into a big slapstick which while amusing is not the setting for my game. The Orcs are just to fun to play.
Sister Callidia said:
Precisely and that is why I won't be having any Orcs in my campaigns. My players woulod turn it into a big slapstick which while amusing is not the setting for my game. The Orcs are just to fun to play.
Ah Go on. Roll up some characteristics and throw the Freebooter NPC in orky cell. Then let him out as a special playable character when you want to have a grunt smash powergaming session or when one of your players wants a easy nights roleplaying or even hungover . Orks don't require the improvisation verbal eloquence that a player roleplaying a Seneshal has to bring to the table. Infact the player requires only three phrases:
"Waaaagh!"
"Dakka Dakka Dakka"
"Dat wud be an' Ekumenikal Matta'"
Then the players may have to drug his Squigmilk ala B.A. Barracas to get him back to his cell.
Oddly, I have no problems conveying the Orks as a true terror. The comedy factors among them are more disturbing than slapstick (particularly the painboyz treatments) and I play up the raw savagery. It goes without saying that no one I know would even consider a Freebooter as a PC.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
signoftheserpent said:
A year on from RT and still only Kroot and Ork?
What were you expecting? It's the first non-adventure sourcebook in the line, and it isn't a quick process to produce these books.
The speed of which books can be produced is really not the issue. FFG has chosen an approach that makes no sense at all. It's a year on and still nowhere near enough on starships!
signoftheserpent said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
signoftheserpent said:
A year on from RT and still only Kroot and Ork?
What were you expecting? It's the first non-adventure sourcebook in the line, and it isn't a quick process to produce these books.
I would expect a clearer vision for the line, a game that covers all that it needs to cover and be scaled properly with the companion games from the same universe (as that's the design choice made), and information that covers the actual 40k setting and the things that make people want to play in it. Not just FFG's invention of the koronus expanse et. all. Why is Into The Storm such a hodge podge of random information? Why is there no dedicated book covering the alien races - ork? kroot? That's ridiculous - why no eldar, or dark eldar (they are pirates after all), no information on spacehulks, necron tombship or such like, no tau, no chaos. The main book has nothing save a couple of stats which is ridiculous.
The speed of which books can be produced is really not the issue. FFG has chosen an approach that makes no sense at all. It's a year on and still nowhere near enough on starships!
While I hate to defend the Rogue Trader line, as I have been dissappointed in it snce I got my CE last year, I feel I must, as facts are facts.
Tau are being covered in Deathwatch (with Vespids in the DW GMs Kit). Necrons are not active yet so why cover them? Or at least they are not very active. Chaos is plenty well covered in Dark Heresy (and from what I hear, they are in Deathwatch as well). I do agree that the Rogue Trader line of books (and recent Dark Heresy ones as well) hae been more haphazardly stitched together. Other then Lure of the Expanse I have found the RT line boring and uninteresting.
However, I like the fact that FFG (and BI before them) are making their own sections of 40K to explore, as it allows the GM some control of the setting without players knowing everything.
Peacekeeper_b said:
signoftheserpent said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
signoftheserpent said:
A year on from RT and still only Kroot and Ork?
What were you expecting? It's the first non-adventure sourcebook in the line, and it isn't a quick process to produce these books.
I would expect a clearer vision for the line, a game that covers all that it needs to cover and be scaled properly with the companion games from the same universe (as that's the design choice made), and information that covers the actual 40k setting and the things that make people want to play in it. Not just FFG's invention of the koronus expanse et. all. Why is Into The Storm such a hodge podge of random information? Why is there no dedicated book covering the alien races - ork? kroot? That's ridiculous - why no eldar, or dark eldar (they are pirates after all), no information on spacehulks, necron tombship or such like, no tau, no chaos. The main book has nothing save a couple of stats which is ridiculous.
The speed of which books can be produced is really not the issue. FFG has chosen an approach that makes no sense at all. It's a year on and still nowhere near enough on starships!
While I hate to defend the Rogue Trader line, as I have been dissappointed in it snce I got my CE last year, I feel I must, as facts are facts.
Tau are being covered in Deathwatch (with Vespids in the DW GMs Kit). Necrons are not active yet so why cover them? Or at least they are not very active. Chaos is plenty well covered in Dark Heresy (and from what I hear, they are in Deathwatch as well). I do agree that the Rogue Trader line of books (and recent Dark Heresy ones as well) hae been more haphazardly stitched together. Other then Lure of the Expanse I have found the RT line boring and uninteresting.
However, I like the fact that FFG (and BI before them) are making their own sections of 40K to explore, as it allows the GM some control of the setting without players knowing everything.
FFG can create their own sections fo the 40k unvirse so long as they detail the key elements first. This they are not doing. I'm sure it's all good stuff, but it's not what i want. I don't want their aliens and their planets I want what's essential to 40k and necrons are part of that. To exclude Dark Eldar as well, for another example, is just baffling. They ar epirates after all.
It's this thinking that has spoilt the game line for me, and i certainly don't have the money to buy full price supplements, one after the other, for a drip drip of randomly organised information of 40k setting elements that are at the core of the setting. I could really care less about The Slaught, for instance when i could have stats for playing Eldar or facing Dark Eldar ships, Spacehulks, and so on.
Deatwatch is a separate game with a different stat scale, and even then there's some question as to how much detail will be featured. I doubt they include Tau ships. The fact that Vespids are in a separate product again demonstrates the totally random approach FFG have taken. This is not the way to go at all. Necrons are not active yet? Says who - FFG? Necrons have been part of the 40k setting for years now and have been, like all elements of the setting, properly codified - it's not as if they are vague and unquantifiable elements FFG has to guess about. Really this again is the problem. How many RT gm's have thought 'wouldn't it be cool if the crew stumbled across a planet full of treasure to find it's a necron tomb'? I bet I'm not the only one.
Says GW. There is a timeline of the 40k universe and in that timeline, we're still centuries before mass necron awakening. I, by the way, was rather happy they decided to include the Kroot instead of the Eldar.
FFG can create their own sections fo the 40k unvirse so long as they detail the key elements first. This they are not doing. I'm sure it's all good stuff, but it's not what i want. I don't want their aliens and their planets I want what's essential to 40k and necrons are part of that. To exclude Dark Eldar as well, for another example, is just baffling. They ar epirates after all.
Um... Dark Eldar were already present in an adventure. I don't think they'll be given playable stats unless an all-eldar sourcebook comes out.
It's this thinking that has spoilt the game line for me, and i certainly don't have the money to buy full price supplements, one after the other, for a drip drip of randomly organised information of 40k setting elements that are at the core of the setting. I could really care less about The Slaught, for instance when i could have stats for playing Eldar or facing Dark Eldar ships, Spacehulks, and so on.
I, on the other hand, would rather have immediately useable information. Should they have given information on the tau beforehand? What for? They're half a galaxy away! I'm sure I don't have to give the Hitchhiker's speech on how big space actually is. Their choice was simple: Present one sector with everything living there and slowly expand from there or give what would be essentially random bits of the setting to cover all the most popular things when you can't actually play a continuous campaign using them because you'd have to jump between sectors all the time.
As for the actual book, I found it pretty good. The only thing I felt missing were customization options for the vehicles - or rather, kustomization options. After all, mekboyz are well-known for improving imperial vehicles. The orky bitz for the weapons were a good step in the right direction though.
signoftheserpent said:
Peacekeeper_b said:
signoftheserpent said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
signoftheserpent said:
A year on from RT and still only Kroot and Ork?
What were you expecting? It's the first non-adventure sourcebook in the line, and it isn't a quick process to produce these books.
I would expect a clearer vision for the line, a game that covers all that it needs to cover and be scaled properly with the companion games from the same universe (as that's the design choice made), and information that covers the actual 40k setting and the things that make people want to play in it. Not just FFG's invention of the koronus expanse et. all. Why is Into The Storm such a hodge podge of random information? Why is there no dedicated book covering the alien races - ork? kroot? That's ridiculous - why no eldar, or dark eldar (they are pirates after all), no information on spacehulks, necron tombship or such like, no tau, no chaos. The main book has nothing save a couple of stats which is ridiculous.
The speed of which books can be produced is really not the issue. FFG has chosen an approach that makes no sense at all. It's a year on and still nowhere near enough on starships!
While I hate to defend the Rogue Trader line, as I have been dissappointed in it snce I got my CE last year, I feel I must, as facts are facts.
Tau are being covered in Deathwatch (with Vespids in the DW GMs Kit). Necrons are not active yet so why cover them? Or at least they are not very active. Chaos is plenty well covered in Dark Heresy (and from what I hear, they are in Deathwatch as well). I do agree that the Rogue Trader line of books (and recent Dark Heresy ones as well) hae been more haphazardly stitched together. Other then Lure of the Expanse I have found the RT line boring and uninteresting.
However, I like the fact that FFG (and BI before them) are making their own sections of 40K to explore, as it allows the GM some control of the setting without players knowing everything.
Deatwatch is a separate game with a different stat scale, and even then there's some question as to how much detail will be featured. I doubt they include Tau ships. The fact that Vespids are in a separate product again demonstrates the totally random approach FFG have taken. This is not the way to go at all. Necrons are not active yet? Says who - FFG? Necrons have been part of the 40k setting for years now and have been, like all elements of the setting, properly codified - it's not as if they are vague and unquantifiable elements FFG has to guess about. Really this again is the problem. How many RT gm's have thought 'wouldn't it be cool if the crew stumbled across a planet full of treasure to find it's a necron tomb'? I bet I'm not the only one.
FFG can create their own sections fo the 40k unvirse so long as they detail the key elements first. This they are not doing. I'm sure it's all good stuff, but it's not what i want. I don't want their aliens and their planets I want what's essential to 40k and necrons are part of that. To exclude Dark Eldar as well, for another example, is just baffling. They ar epirates after all.
It's this thinking that has spoilt the game line for me, and i certainly don't have the money to buy full price supplements, one after the other, for a drip drip of randomly organised information of 40k setting elements that are at the core of the setting. I could really care less about The Slaught, for instance when i could have stats for playing Eldar or facing Dark Eldar ships, Spacehulks, and so on.
Well there are plenty of fan made rules and supplements that do cover necrons and other basic ideas of 40K. I personally wouldnt mind seeing some more generalized releases that are supplemental for all three games.
And despite the three games being "different" RPGS, they really are not different. Different character creation and progression rules and different psy power rules, but in general, interchangable games.
And then there is the old fiat of making your own stuff. I did it when DH was first published, making Dark Eldar, Hrud, Necron, Commissar, Ork and other rules. Check Dark Reign for other works. You seem to think you know what is right and proper for a 40K RPG so make it up yourself and be on with it.
But the Sabbat World's Crusade guide fromGW, stat up your own stuff and have fun in the GW parts.
Peacekeeper_b said:
Well there are plenty of fan made rules and supplements that do cover necrons and other basic ideas of 40K. I personally wouldnt mind seeing some more generalized releases that are supplemental for all three games.
And despite the three games being "different" RPGS, they really are not different. Different character creation and progression rules and different psy power rules, but in general, interchangable games.
And then there is the old fiat of making your own stuff. I did it when DH was first published, making Dark Eldar, Hrud, Necron, Commissar, Ork and other rules. Check Dark Reign for other works. You seem to think you know what is right and proper for a 40K RPG so make it up yourself and be on with it.
But the Sabbat World's Crusade guide fromGW, stat up your own stuff and have fun in the GW parts.
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
signoftheserpent said:
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
Oh, I think we all get the point just fine. FFG's 40K roleplaying games don't conform to your narrow definition of what they should be, and you've got your panties in a bunch and insist on telling us all about it over, and over, and over, and over. Oh, and we also get the point that you can't afford every book they put out...even though you hate them all.
Did I miss anything?
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
As I've asked once before on a different forum: Where is the difference in buying a Rogue Trader sourcebook dealing with Eldar for your Rogue Trader game and buying a Death Watch sourcebook dealing with Eldar for your Rogue Trader game? You can mail me your book and I will personally strike out any instances of "Death Watch" and replace them with "Rogue Trader", if you don't feel capable of doing that yourself.
And how are the rules "not interchangeable enough"? With the sole exception of the psyker system of DH and the rest of the line, the rules are pretty much exactly the same, excepting what are essentially errata.
Deadline247 said:
signoftheserpent said:
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
Oh, I think we all get the point just fine. FFG's 40K roleplaying games don't conform to your narrow definition of what they should be, and you've got your panties in a bunch and insist on telling us all about it over, and over, and over, and over. Oh, and we also get the point that you can't afford every book they put out...even though you hate them all.
Did I miss anything?
Deadline247 said:
signoftheserpent said:
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
Oh, I think we all get the point just fine. FFG's 40K roleplaying games don't conform to your narrow definition of what they should be, and you've got your panties in a bunch and insist on telling us all about it over, and over, and over, and over. Oh, and we also get the point that you can't afford every book they put out...even though you hate them all.
Did I miss anything?
Oh, and that even when people offer suggestions to help him out, he doesmt want their help and would rather just tell them that they just dont understand or get the point.
And I thought I was a stubborn S.O.B. (no not sister of battle)
Deadline247 said:
signoftheserpent said:
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
Oh, I think we all get the point just fine. FFG's 40K roleplaying games don't conform to your narrow definition of what they should be, and you've got your panties in a bunch and insist on telling us all about it over, and over, and over, and over. Oh, and we also get the point that you can't afford every book they put out...even though you hate them all.
Did I miss anything?
Peacekeeper_b said:
Deadline247 said:
signoftheserpent said:
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
Oh, I think we all get the point just fine. FFG's 40K roleplaying games don't conform to your narrow definition of what they should be, and you've got your panties in a bunch and insist on telling us all about it over, and over, and over, and over. Oh, and we also get the point that you can't afford every book they put out...even though you hate them all.
Did I miss anything?
Deadline247 said:
signoftheserpent said:
With respect i'm not interested in fan based supplements. There's little point buying the game at all if that's the way to go. FFG should be covering this stuff and they have failed to do so. it's not really good enough to exopect fans to take up the slack.
Even if i could afford Deathwatch, I really shouldn't have to - and that's assuming it offers what I need. And they aren't interchangeable enough.
I think you are missing the point here.
Oh, I think we all get the point just fine. FFG's 40K roleplaying games don't conform to your narrow definition of what they should be, and you've got your panties in a bunch and insist on telling us all about it over, and over, and over, and over. Oh, and we also get the point that you can't afford every book they put out...even though you hate them all.
Did I miss anything?
Oh, and that even when people offer suggestions to help him out, he doesmt want their help and would rather just tell them that they just dont understand or get the point.
And I thought I was a stubborn S.O.B. (no not sister of battle)
I must have missed something, what suggestion did you make?
signoftheserpent said:
I must have missed something, what suggestion did you make?
Makng up your own stuff. Using fan made stuff. Altering existing stuff and so forth.
Peacekeeper_b said:
signoftheserpent said:
I must have missed something, what suggestion did you make?
Makng up your own stuff. Using fan made stuff. Altering existing stuff and so forth.
Personally, I view Into the Storm as an amazing supplement to RT, easily equal to the Inquisitor's Handbook in DH. Got a lot of great details, extra gear and info. The rules on orks and kroot as PCs are inspired. Love the extra origin paths and the ideas for using/burning profit factor.
Cheers to everyone involved in putting this fine product out!!
-Thulis
signoftheserpent said:
I don't want to make up stuff that should be covered by the basic game. Why am i not entitled to a comment if i choose to play this way?
You're entitled to comment. You're entitled to your opinion. However, you seem to have chosen to repeat the same opinion over and over again ad nauseam, that FFG are inherently and fundamentally wrong in their approach and that your way is the only right and proper way to do things.
Your preferences are not inherently those of anyone else, what you deem to be useless or a waste of space may be deemed worthwhile by another, and what you claim that FFG should do is nothing other than a single opinion in the crowd. That you choose to use the anonymity of the internet to be brusque about the matter earns you nothing whatsoever.
Personally, both as someone who plays these games and as someone who helps produce them, I'm actually much more interested in things I haven't already seen in a codex than just rehashing the familiar. It's more useful for me as a GM to be able to provide adversaries that are unknown to people with a decade or two of experience with the tabletop game, and a setting that contains its own specific details rather than a shallow and generic overview of the entire Imperium that only contains the basic details about forces described in a Codex. It's more interesting for me as a writer to be able to examine something new and specific and detailed rather than being constantly forced to hedge my bets and be unable to give any real detail because the setting is too big to make generalisations.
To Rogue Trader in particular: there are only two sourcebooks published so far, which is a limited amount of space at the best of times. Unless you'd prefer only the vaguest detail, I don't see that there is the room to put all the things that you're demanding from a 40k RPG within the page space already available. So, in that regard, yes the speed at which the books can be produced is part of the issue. That you seem to harbour an irrational loathing for any material beyond what you define as 'the essentials' is a completely distinct issue, and one that I really have no interest in.
from france
just a question:
is it possible to combine a assault guantlet and a forearm power blade in the same foream weapon or a ripper pistol and foream power blade. one under on above?
That sounds like a wonderful way of saying "I didn't like my hand anyway!" to me.