I purchased runebound a couple months ago. But i recently found out that my purchase also came with the entire first wave of small expansions (relics of legends, artifacts and allies, terrors of the tomb, the dark forest, crown of the elder kings, and the septer of kyros) for free and i was really excited. But after reading some stuff in the internet some of these expansions (espesially the market expansions) where critizised. Then on the runebound shopping guide, it said each expansion is worth something.

Now i'm confused, which ones should i use? I would really appreciate your help.

shadow? said:

Crown of the Elder Kings and Scepter of Kyros are adventure variants, so you can only use one of those at a time. They change the end game conditions as well as a number of rules during play. You wouldn't use them every game, but pull them out now and then to get a different adventure than the base game (aka Rise of the Dragonlords.)

Relics of Legend, A&A, TotT and Dark Forest are all the kind of expansion you can mix in to the appropriate base decks and forget about (if you're so inclined.) Personally I have A&A and the Dark Forest which are now permanently added to my decks. I might also have Terrors, but I'm not 100% sure. I know I've heard people criticizing Relics of Legend as being too powerful, but since I don't own it I can't speak to that myself.

My advice is this: take reviews with a grain of salt. It is, after all, someone else's opinion and you may find that disagree with that opinion (for good or ill.) Every card in each expansion has its own identifying mark on the face of the card, so you can separate them out again if you decide you don't like a given expansion. I would say mix everything in (except the adventure variants, which aren't intended to be mixed) and play a few games. If you notice some of the cards from a given expansion are too powerful and ruining your fun, take that expansion out again. If you don't find it ruining your fun, then more cards is always better, right?

Thanks i appreciate your help and i guess your right but my main concern is with thos banners (banner of lion, unicorn, etc.) i think their in relics of legends, ive also heard that relics are legend make your market deck weaker, which i guess it means in terms of item value since they are pretty cheap and no one ever really buys them. But also times have happend in solo play where i couldn't find any good armor (i had 13 gold) and ended in me killing three dragonlords with a strong gnome ally, an alchemists bomb, a sword that can do 3 damage and a sword that weakens stats plus mad carthos's special ability. I thougt it was a pretty cheap victory because of the market deck, has this ever happened to anyone? Is it supposed to?

On a tangent, Steve, which of the "adventure variants" have you liked the most? Me and mine are still new to Runebound. Though we do own SoAK, we are holding off until we get to smooth play with the standard game. We are looking to try one of the variants soon. Are some close or far from the standard endgames?

Hope you don't mind if I pop in on this:

Avatars of Kelnov tends to be the most similar game to Rise of the Dragon Lords. You basically are substituting "Avatars" instead of "Dragon Lords" In the red card deck.

Sceptre of Kyros is similar for the first 70% as you power and level up. The endgame is quite a bit different as the Giants take over the towns, but it still comes down to whether or not you are powerful enough to take down the final big bad boss.

Those are the 2 adventure variants I think are the most similar to the base game. If you want my thoughts on the others i'll happily chime in with them.

shadow? said:

Yeah, I think the banners are the worst of all the market deck additions. I just remove them from the deck. The rest of the market cards from that expansion are fine, though.

I wouldn't worry about having cheap items in the market deck. The least expensive items aren't as powerful, of course, but they're often ideal when you don't have a lot of coins to spare.

As for finding no armor but using a sword + bomb with an ally and a character's special ability -- To me, that sounds like a completely legit victory. Some games you'll find good armor, some games good allies, and some games you'll rely more on a big melee or magic attack. You just get to adjust and use whatever is available.

JCHendee said:

I agree with Miles's assessment of the variants he mentioned.

As far as the "most different" I'd say probably Cataclysm is the biggest change. Some cities get destroyed by meteors, others are in various states of disrepair. Very "end of the world"-y. Cult of the Rune looks like it might be somewhat new as well (with the heroes chasing down a cult that runs all over the map - I don't own that one myself yet, though.

Okay, those two sound like good small variations to start with. Thanks!

You know I'm actually of 2 minds on this. (as annoying as that is) They are good Adventure Variants to start with in terms of the least amount of rules changes that take place for a more inexperienced Runebound player/gamer in general (Avatar being the least amount changed, followed by Sceptre). On the other hand, Cataclysm or Cult of the Rune (my 2 favorites) are a better way to start when you are an experienced player who is looking to really change up Runebound and make it play like a different game. Both of those variants add new bits to the playing surface which is also sort of neat. You know you aren't playing Rise of the DragonLords when you look at those 2 games in progress. Hope that makes sense.

Duly noted... and yeah, that makes sense. We are still new to RB with another session of the standard play ongoing right now. But you've helped me further prioritize the variant expansions for future implementation, as I think it will be time for something new next game.

it does bring up a suggestion, though not all will likely agree on the ordering. If any of you had to classify all of the Variant expansions available, which ones would you put into Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced? Just a notion for categories. I would guess that those matching the mechanics of the base game would be Beginner level. Those that change just the endgame or the parts of play mechanics might be Intermediate. Those that do both and perhaps introduce new components as well could be Advanced. But don't take those categories as too literal, or in comparison to the big box expansions.

If there are no takers on this, that's okay.

I happen to think all the variants have the same "difficultly to win" factor. They all tend to be a bit tougher than the base game especially because you are trying to learn a new set of rules the first few times you play. So because you "already know the rules" Avatars might seem easier than Cataclysm at first blush.

Avatar's reds, I think, are a bit tougher than Rise of the DragonLord reds, but its rules are easiest to learn. Beginner Rules.

Crown adds a PvP type endgame where other players have to take down the player that was crowned King. I'd say the difficultly being crowned is about the same as getting to red level challenges, but the endgame is tough for the other players who are trying to kill the king. Intermediate Rules, pvp focus.

Sceptre is about the same difficulty as Avatars with the rules slightly more advanced (at end game stage only). Intermediate challenge and (just a notch above) Beginner Rules.

Cataclysm is advanced rules. The towns are destroyed or cursed so you have a whole new shopping mechanic and an interesting quest system for overcoming the curses.

Cult is advanced rules. You need to trail a cult around the board as it corrupts towns and challenges without getting too close and getting corrupted yourself. I wish there was something better than a victory point system for the end game, but its still a very fun variant.

Seven Scion adds a co-op element to defeating certain challenges a new step to the turn phase and special mechanics for awakening the "scions" who you can utilize. Advanced rules.

Excellent breakdown, Miles. Just the kind of succinct comparative details a newbie needs. But of course, eventually, me and mine will just have to try all. The order is the trick so we don't get in over our heads. Along with Steve's suggested starting points, this will be very helpful.

Now, about the big box stuff. We have Sands, so how would you rate that in the scheme of what you've mentioned. Advanced perhaps?

JCHendee said:

All Big Box expansions might be treated as "advanced rules". Every expansion adds a lot of new and different mechanics to the basic game, bringing to a wholly new playing experience.

I think the expansions have different levels of complexity towards the base game, a mix of difficulty and new rules management:

Highest complexity

Midnight

Mists of Zanaga

Sands of Al Kalim

Island of Dread

Frozen Wastes

Lowest complexity

Midnight is a completely different Runebound experience. One player gets the rule of the Shadow Lord and challenges the other players in a very harsh environment. This was the expansion that upsetted both game system and setting, since it is not on Terrinoth but in the Midnight world. This is the reason why it is out of print now, but it's still a unique and valuable game add-on.

I've never played Mists of Zanaga so far but the rules and new mechanics look to be quite complex to manage. Players need to be extra careful and a little bit more cooperative, otherwise the setting will cut them all down to size with the Ritual mechanics.

Sands of Al Kalim has unique movement mechanics, special endgame conditions (quest-oriented instead of challenging up to the utmost power) and excellent side-rules. There's a lot of complexity in comparison to the base game but the improvement in flavour is really great IMO.

Island of Dread has no excessive rule changing from the base game but the map looks totally different and movement issues are tough to manage. I think this is the only expansion where the costly Armor Item "Wings of Regiroth" is really useful. Moreover, the Silver Challenges are extra-dangerous and require Heroes to beef up a lot before trying. This means extra playing time. But IoD is a valuable add on because of the 8 new Heroes that mingle with the basic ones and the new Market cards.

Even though I prefer Sands of Al Kalim as an expansion, I consider Frozen Wastes to be the smoothest expansion realised for Runebound. It is not overly difficult, has fine movement mechanics and an interesting Endgame with possible focus on PvP. I think this is the expansion that gave me the most satisfying experience when I was looking for some quick learning alternative to the standard game.

Another really great breakdown, Warlock, and confirms that when Barb and I were looking for a big box to put on the shelf for later, we were right to come down to IoD and SoAK as the final choices. Frozen Wastes wasn't on the shelves.

We went with SoAK because we like its Arabian Nights flavour and the new goal of "accomplishments" vs just another big baddy in the end. I think once we've dabbled in the Variants, it may be a hard choice to go straight into SoAK or to order up Frozen Wastes first. What do you think? After working through some of the upper scale Variants, would we step into SoAK without too much effort? Either way, IoD will be our next big box, though we'll certainly ****** all of the others except one.

I think we'll skip Midnight. We're not into having a GM in our boardgames; everyone wants to be inside their own adventure. And its out of print so expensive to acquire.

Runebound is quickly becoming the game of preference around here, and long play doesn't mean anything to us. Talisman has become the "intermission" game for when there isn't time or personal energy for something with depth. When its just Barb and me, we'll even play RB for an hour or so and then leave it out, comin back to it on following nights until we're finished. Adds something additional in our evenings after a long day's slog through another manuscript.

The feedback is greatly appreciated!

JCHendee said:

I think SoAK is exactly how you describe it. It is not overly complex, but the new mechanics (Legendary Quests, Day & Night movement/Challenges, Story Die, Sandstorm, Survival Gear) add so much to the base set that you need a couple of games to really appreciate the new balance and to understand how to stay on this new board. This is true for every big box expansion, though.

The Variants won't help you much with the big boxes. Variants are very effective in changing the game appearance while using the same board, but are not "really" different from the base game. You have same movement logics, perhaps different victory conditions and difficulty, but won't really feel the difference in the atmosphere. The positive feature of big boxes is that they really change things a lot, too bad they're not going to publish card expansions to vary the big box card set.

No expanding the big boxes? Well, that's a little saddening. Anyway, yet another birthday coming up. Considering economic times, and not wanting yet more overpriced stuff to smile over that I don't need... I loaded the wish list up with every small box expansion I don't have. My wife and daughter will get a kick over it and it'll save people more than a few bucks trying to buy me what they think I want. And we'll just figure out what we like and don't amid the games. (I did notice some were out of print and not to found elsewhere, but I'll have more than I know what to do with anyway.)

Thanks again for the help... everyone.

Of course, those card expansions which are "only" new market cards, can be used with all big box expansions.

Card expansions which give new challenge cards, cannot be used. And that might pose a problem after lots of plays with big box expansions - challenge cards gets reused so many times that everyone gets to know them too well.

Yes, we've been thinking about that, but that problem is a little ways as off yet. And I would guess that rotating through a few different big boxes could hold off any potential monotony.

I've never read an official post from FFG that they will never offer card expansion for the big-boxes. (but that doesn't mean it isn't out there). I would be in strong favor of a challenge card expansion for them but who knows if it will ever happen.

I think between the base game (with its 6 challenge card expansions), 6 adventure variant decks, and 4 Terrinoth centric big box expansions you won't hit the monotony factor any time soon with runebound.

I like to mix in 2 challenge card expansions to the base game (with or with out an adventure variant) at a time. Every few plays we do a big box instead and cycle through those. I think the only way it can get stale is if you were to just play 1 big box expansion or just the base game over and over again for months.

Chosing heroes randomly also helps keep the game from becoming stale because it prevents a player from falling into old habits with the same 2 or 3 comfortable characters.

At any rate, there are enough expansions out there for runebound and you'll get a sense of when it is or isn't time to try a new one.