Hello All,

A question has been brought up in my DH group and I was hoping to gather some insight.

Here are the questions:

1) Does a PC with blademaster get to re-roll an attack if the target dodges said attack? RAW blademaster says to reroll an attack if it results in a miss; it is unclear as to whether the miss must be based on the attack roll OR an enemy using dodge effectively, both which would result in a miss.

2) There is only one AoO per round, regardless of amount of movement, correct?

1)

An argument could be made either way. The crux of the issue is whether or not a hit that has been dodged counts as a miss. The dodge entry on page 101 implies that it isn't, while the one on 193 seems to say it is. Leave it up to the GM or ask the developers.

2)

The only AoO I'm aware of is the ones attackers get while someone is fleeing. In that instance, each attacker gets 1 attack on the fleeing party.

I would be inclined to allow a re-roll for Blademaster only of the original WS test resulted in a miss. It seems to me that allowing someone to reroll on a successful Dodge is pretty powerful. After all, a "miss" is not the same as avoiding what was supposed to be a sucessful blow.

1) Since the only reroll specified is the WS roll, doing that on a succesful dodge would be pretty pointless - the dodge roll still stands so the only thing accomplished would be wasting your Blademaster reroll for the round.

2) There's no limit specified, though if a character was surrounded by four enemies and they all decided to bolt in the same round, I'd probably allow at most two free attacks.

1. Look, honestly ask yourself this question: If you were GM and a player asked to use a fate point for a reroll on his attack that missed because the target made a successful dodge test... would you allow it? Honestly?

2. As stated, no apparent limit. You could limit it to 1 or 2 a round, but perhaps it would be more fun to make it Agility Bonus or 1/2 Agility Bonus (round up) to make it more characteristic-dependent.

I'm at work at the mo so I don't have my book to hand but I remember when this came up in our games.

The rules themselves for both Dodge and Parry state that when the test is successful the attack counts as a miss. As the blademaster rules state that the character can re-roll any one missed attack then the attacker should be able to re-roll these.

But to what end? As stated above its still the same attack as before, you just re-roll the dice. Since the opponent has made his dodge roll the attack is always going to be counted as a miss, even if you make the re-roll.

So practically it won't work. You can't use Blademaster to hit with an attack that someone already dodged. If we try to follow the spirit of the rules I think we come to the same conclution.

Honn said:

I'm not sure where everyone is getting that the Dodge roll would stand, even if one were to reroll - I don't see that made explicit anywhere in the text. I'd probably agree that the spirit of the rules probably wouldn't allow it, hence my previous plea to consider similar mechanics used similarly (Fate Point rerolls).

The biggest problem here is that the text is NOT explicit when it comes to what we, as gamers, tend to take for granted in reading a text; guidelines like "Whatever effects that occured last are the ones last applied" and "Rerolls must be taken immediately after the initial roll, if any", amongst others, are a fairly common assumed framework that allow us to apply the rules we're given in a meaningful way.

That said, I must say I'm a bit ambivalent about my own decision here... when you consider that the mechanics are there to provide more of a facsimile for combat interactions as a whole, not as literal translations of action, I don't really see a huge issue with it - A single attack in melee is probably actually representing the only opportunity to score a hit in those 5 seconds of chaotic melee. That's why nobody blinks an eye when an attacker's "hit" is suddenly treated as a miss due to parry and dodge rules - it wasn't an actual hit, just a potential one. Conceptually, I'm having less and less issue with a 'master' being able to possibly negate an opponent's attempt to negate the master's attack. Masters can be like that, y'know; I can't express how annoying it can be sparring with someone with the sort of experience to get you to dodge directly into their next attack.

To recap:

Technically, nothing stops you. Sensically, some people are going to balk at the order the actions take (especially since you're not actually rerolling a failed roll, but rather an actively negated one.

To those that would argue against you, I'd suggest saying something snide and pithy like "Successful Dodge tests are no more ultimately a successful Dodge than a successful Weapon Skill tests are ultimately a successful Hit."

Of course, if you enjoy playing with your current group, that should probably be immediately followed with misdirecting laughter and, if they can't be convinced, ceding of the point. Blademaster already allows a single re-rolled test of a particular type per round, which is honestly a very powerful ability for, generally, not a terribly high point cost. It really doesn't NEED the ability to screw with successful Dodge tests, technical reading or no, and is not worth losing a good group over.

If you want to take this to silly levels, assume that you are GMing a battle where two (or more!) characters with Blademaster are trading blows. Are you really going to set up the cascade failure in your game that the counter-your-counter-with-my-counter-unless-you-counter-me-again would become?

You hit me, so I roll my parry. Success!

Oh yeah, well I Blademaster your parry!

Ha! Well I have Wall of Steel, so I parry your re-hit! Then I retaliate with Counterattack!

Oh yeah, well I parry your Counterattack!

Ha! I Blademaster your parry!

Oh, well I have Wall of Steel too, so I parry your re-hit! Then I smack you with my Counterattack!

Not bad, but I still have my Dodge reaction thanks to Step Aside....

Really? How about STFU and roll your next attack... If your character is this specialized then we all know you have Swift or Lightning Attack... Get on with it and roll your follow-up attacks. The master of melee concept is already represented by people having these sorts of talents in the first place. If you can generate 2-3 QUALITY threats to a fellow fighter's defenses in under 5 seconds while not leaving yourself open to reprisal then you are in pretty good shape. If your opponent is not skilled enough to counter 2-3 QUALITY threats to their own health and welfare in under 5 seconds while also maintaining a stiff offense then you WILL tear them apart. If they CAN counter that volley of doom then it is fairly safe to say that they too are a master of death and no more prone to "amateur mistakes" then the attacker is. Successful defenses are final due to game balance. Don't like it? Then maybe next time try a Feint/Single attack combo? Pull it off and your foe is not defending. Tactics win battles.

I really think that the answer is No. In my opinion (sorry, I don't have the book here) your re-roll must occur before other dice rolls are made. In effect, you re-roll on your turn to roll dice. When a Defender Reacts, he is effectively taking a turn to roll dice early.

The Fate point re-rolls are basically the universal re-roll rules. As stated, would you let someone re-roll a To Hit if they were shooting through cover but didn't do enough damage to penetrate the cover and hit the target? Again, technically they missed, even though their dice roll was enough to hit.

-Cynr