There's a long standing bias with mainly us old greybeard old school gamers ..call it a taboo, superstition, sense of impropriety, stubborn individuality or whatever... many of us refuse to play if forced to use pre-generated characters. This includes games like 40k. We don't want to field no stinkin' "UltraMarines" or "Space Wolves" or any sort of Angels no matter how you dress them up. We definitely don't want no swatty Nancy-Marine "Rainbow Warriors"....

Luckily, some of the GW design team were of the same mindset, which is why there were originally 1000 undefined Space Marine Chapters. As the "canon" grew, these 1000 "undefined" Chapters got "defined" but the powers that be left us two loopholes. God bless 'em for not wishing to stifle our creativity!

There exists (or may not exist!) two Space Marine Legions (1st Founding Chapters) that have officially been expunged from all Imperial records. Even knowing about them is Heresy most foul. Nobody knows their names, organization, Primarchs, nothing...it's not even sure if the records were purged before or after the Horus Heresy. Nobody knows why they were expunged either, whether they still exist somewhere out there...nothing.

Of course I'm leading up to the justification for the possible existence of female Space Marines...

I realize, it would be difficult not to break canon by including them into a "normal" game of Deathwatch. Female or not, the missing Legions would never be in a sanctioned Deathwatch team as even the most powerful, fringest of the fringe Inquisitors would probably have never heard of such a thing as 2 mysterious unknown Space Marine Legions and would certainly know that such knowledge was abominable Heresy.

However, I'm merely pointing out that if you felt so inclined you could base a Campaign around a Chapter, female of course, of these mythical Astartes which operate outside Imperial society, either in hiding or literally outside Imperial space where they've been fighting (insert bad guy of choice) for the last 30-40,000 years without any Imperial contact.

For the record: Female Astartes don't exist and to suggest they do or should is Heresy.

I'm simply stating a loophole allowing that they could exist, for you Heretics out there.

You're welcome!

The way I see and will run it (If I Get My Book... Hint hint.)

Is its your 'verse your rules.

And dont give a frell about other people.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

We've been there before, I'm afraid. This forum seems to have its fair share of people who started out with Rogue Trader (not the RPG) and some have raised the point before.

I think you should feel pretty comfortable between people who have known the setting for 20+ years too. ;-)

Alex

PS Personally I'd still prefer the unauthorized female chapter loophole I've made up. Tends to create more drama. ;-)

oh god not this again

please not this again

I agree, this topic has been butchered beyond reason.

If you follow canon they can not exist

If you want them go for, it just is not canon.

Really simple.

Please not another one rant.

If it's not broken, don't fix it. So why do people want to fix a game that's not broken?

On the other hand it's an interesting diversion from the "I've got my copy!" threads. Well, even if it has seen more attention than... No, I'm going to stop that analogy right there.

Kage

What about cross-dressing marines ?

Bilateralrope said:

Wouldn't that be covered by the Emperor's Children...

AJC

Kage2020 said:

On the other hand, I'm sure there are better diversions than another female Space Marine thread. At this point, my mild objection to the idea has grown into an utter and complete hatred. It's led me to the conclusion that there will be NO female option in my Deathwtach games, Space Marine or otherwise. If people can't get over the idiocy of worrying about a fictional character's sex because it doesn't match theirs, I don't want to ever play with them.

The complete lack of imagination it takes to be unable to play a character of a different sex is something my games can do without, thank you...

As an aside...the Primarchs of the two "missing" Legions are mentioned in a very passing manner in "False Gods".

And Horus refers to them both as "Brothers", not "Brother and Sister" or "Sisters". So they're definitely male.

Kanluwen said:

I am of the mindset that Space Marines, if we are speaking hypothetically in the sense that females COULD exist, are genderless for all intents and purposes, and call anybody worthy of respect, usually fellow Chapter-mates, "Brother."

Not contributing to this. Nope.

Wait..

My opinion, run the game as you see fit. Really nothing else to say about the topic. It's your game, play how you want to.

I'm waiting for someone at BL to decide that all this controversy would be good for sales and let the authors add fanwank to canon. Hell, it could suck and I'd still buy two copies.

Though if GW puts **** on a space marine, I'm going to just get some chips and beer and watch the forums tear themselves apart.

Artemesia said:

The controversy will never leave until there are officially female space marines too and you know it.

Alex

ak-73 said:

It wouldn't be over then either. Far from it.

Personally that'd be the end of my interest in 40k. The day 40k bows to the foul P.C. Gods will be a very sad day indeed...

Atheosis said:

I can see it now, the fourth ordo in the Inquisition, the Ordo Affirmativus Actionus

Baradiel said:

Lol, suffer not the female marine to live. Me, I wouldn't take it personally because I'm picking my own interpretations anyway and GW has fallen out of favor with me years ago due to their pricing policy. I'm playing 40K 1st edition and WFB 3rd (I think). Works well enough for me.

All the new editions are like new versions of Windows - a re-packaging and re-branding of the old to be able to stay in business. Unlike MS, GW hasn't much leverage in forcing customers to buy and adapt unless they want to play tournaments which I don't. :-)

Alex

I just don't get it. Play a Sororitas, Sisters of Battle, Female Inquisitor, or just about anything from Ascension and be done with it. I'm all for bucking the canon when it gets in the way of fun, but you're messing with a pretty fundamental truth of the setting here. Not only is the idea rediculous, it is selfish ... you don't hear people complaining because they can't play a male Sororitas member. In maintaining the integrity of a setting not all things can be equal and open to all people. The Grim Dark future is not politically correct - accept it and move on.

I agree Jack, there are indeed two options for female Astartes, eighter play the game as a guy or not. There are no female Astartes, period.

Ok, I give up!

I'm a female-trans-genetic-giant-marine!

Are you happy now?

Because I'm sad and I want cry.

(If you can't beat them, join with them)

Ok, now I'm good, I take my Requiem and go in battle: hs anyone seen my power-DDD-armour?

True words, Jack and Lucius.

Jack of Tears said:

I'm not sure, but isn't it, that most people seeing this as an problem are male?

Ehron said:

If we are in a restaurant and I come over demanding the food off your plate, are you selfish for not giving it to me, or am I for demanding it?

It is selfish to say "I should have something, because I want it. Though the thing has a history and design larger than myself and I could more easily change to suit it than it to suit me - because I want it none of those things should matter."

Nobody is saying women can't play in DW, nobody is even saying they can't play space marines, all they are saying is "if you want to play, play by the rules". It is unfair to expect the rules to change to accomidate a handful of people; or more accurate might be to say it is unfair to expect history to change to accomidate a vocal minority. Does it happen? Too damned often - but that doesn't make it right.

Again, it is no less fair to ask women to play males if they want to be space marines than it would be to ask men to play women in a Sororitas campaign. And if either side balks at the request - there are options available for them as well.

Missposting, maybe later.