I have a player who fully buffed up his WP and is currently level 5 and he's taken powers from the Biomancy discipline. The thing is that the character he's playing (he's playing a female pysker) recently got bio-lightning and the acolytes are currently (or about) to battle the main protanganist of the campaign and they're all on a space hulk inside the warp.

Looking at the stats/details for this power, there doesn't seem any way for the target to deflect, dodge or resist it. As long as the power manifests, the target takes damage, and he usually rolls well, this means major pain time for the baddy boss and he (the boss) is an ex-inquisitor, I don't want her to finish him off too quickly. I want him to pose as a major threat. Other than having the baddy have house-made abilities or psychic powers that prevents the damage or she be affected by something that makes her powers weaker, I was wondering if there's any other way to handle this? She's ridiculously over-powered for a level 5 character.

- Bio-Lightning has a 10m range. This isn't like a ranged weapons range where penalties apply as the target gets further away, it is a hard limit. If the target is standing at 11m from the psyker, the psyker will have to spend 5 points of overbleed to be able to hit the target. So have this inquisitor attack from far away so that the psyker needs the overbleed to hit. Any overbleed used to increase range can't be used to send another bolt at the target(s)

- Hexagramatic wards on his armour (Inquisitors Handbook). This means that common carapace armour will have AP 12 against the lightning*, full power armour of best quality gets AP 18.

- Have a look at the Ascension force fields. Especially the null blocker.

- An Inquisitor without Mental Fortress will be very suspicious. Once the psyker learns about it, they might try to avoid using psychic powers directly to avoid taking the backlash. Inquisitor PCs can get unnatural willpower x2 early on, x3 at the last rank. So mental fortress will hurt when it triggers.

*My Biomancer could only get his willpower bonus to 6 before ascension. This means that against warded carapace on a target with only 30 toughness, I would have to roll a 10 on the damage die to deal a single wound.

You can dodge direct damage psychic powers just like other ranged attacks, there have been several threads on the subject that i can't be bothered to look for but it was clarified by FG staff IRC. The gerneral rule of thumb is that if you can't make a WP resist against it then you can dodge it.

Also it was also brought up that the description of resistance: psychic powers says it adds to attempts to avoid (i.e. dodge psychic attacks).

Try thinking outside the box for ways to limit the effectiveness of the power. Have them fight in a flooded room, for example.

Hexagrammatic wards are probably the way to go.

Allowing a dodge like any other multiple hit attack is a good idea.

The Boy Named Crow said:

We are talking about lightning that goes where the psyker wants it to, instead of just arcing to the ground at his feet like unrestricted electricity does. So what are you expecting the water to do ?

SC_Andy said:

You're complaining about Bio-Lightning being overpowered? Really?

Assuming the following:
- WP bonus 5
- Psy Rating 4
- Inquisitor Toughness bonus 5
- Armor 5

The psyker will have a very hard time getting 34 on his total score (29 on 4d10, i.e. over 7 on average). Meaning damage will likely be 2d10+10. On average rolls, that's 10.5 per bolt. 10.5 - 10 = 0.5.

Now, compare this with say an assassin firing on full-auto with an Armageddon, or sniping using a hunting rifle...the psyker does not compare.

I totally agree that psykers are ridiculously overpowered if built right, but Bio-Lightning is not one of the unbalanced powers imo.

Edit: I just noticed you said "any way for the target to deflect, dodge or resist it". If by this you meant that Toughness/Armor doesn't count, you're wrong. Powers where Toughness/Armor doesn't count say so explicitly (Holocaust e.g.).

Bilateralrope said:

I don't know, I would think that once the target was struck the electricity would still probably ground out through the body. After all, that's really were the majority of the damaging effects of electricity come from. So, if biomancer and target are in a pool of water, it would be conceivable for the current to carry and possibly shock the psyker some.

Whilst psykers are manipulating warp energies, those power seem to more often merely bend physical laws rather than outright break them.

-=Brother Praetus=-

maxNihilius said:

What I meant was that she (his character) has WP bonus of 6 (maxed out) and he usually rolls very well, most of the time under 10 to hit , so the target can be hit real bad, and the antagonists I create (and from the book) don't usually stand a chance, even when she uses conventional weapons. He also assumes righteous fury for rolling '0's on the damage roll for the pyschic power. I did check on the forums about righteous fury with psychic powers and agree that apart from those powers that calls for attack rolls to hit, I shouldn't allow it for psychic powers as it would become over-powering. She has float and has explosives that she tosses at enemies deemed too difficult to kill. Plus, having regenerate makes her a tad more difficult to kill.

The inquisitor has a base Toughness bonus of 6 and I've made major changes to his stats & other details just so he wouldn't die in the very first round with a lucky hit. .He also has phase and will give the acolytes a nasty surprise when he is first downed.

Nihilius said:

I wasn't clear on how the power actually worked before, but now I realize this. Though, in any case, armor doesn't count while in phase mode.

As for 'weakening' the psyker, I'm thinking of dampers or torpor and how I can fit them in the boss encounter. Either that, or the inquisitor will need to have something surprising (in a nasty way) up his sleeves, and since he's really sneaky & cunning, it's going to be really good. .

I still don't get how the psyker is so crazy dangerous with Bio-Lightning. You can't say the player "usually" rolls well, in that case a full-burst from a gun is super lethal as well. Toughness 6 + armor (see below) -> Bio-Lightning = mostly harmless.

I'd consider letting the baddie wear armor that functions while incorporeal as well vs damaging psychic powers. Some sort of wards, easily explainable. Of course, the players hopefully have some way of damaging him besides the psyker...and of course, the Inquisitor needs a way to damage the players as well.

Like I said I agree that psykers are in general ridiculously overpowered though.

How can bio lightning be dangerous when he is solid if he has TB 6? Even with a moderate armor she will never do that much damage even with a really good roll.

I wasn't clear on how the power actually worked before, but now I realize this. Though, in any case, armor doesn't count while in phase mode.

Why does the Inquisitor have phase ?

Why would the Inquisitor be stupid enough to use it if he had warded armour when there is a psyker around ?

As for 'weakening' the psyker, I'm thinking of dampers or torpor and how I can fit them in the boss encounter. Either that, or the inquisitor will need to have something surprising (in a nasty way) up his sleeves, and since he's really sneaky & cunning, it's going to be really good. .

Weakening the psyker will probably not go over well with the psyker, especially if they have no chance to avoid it. For example, the worst time I had playing my psyker (scholar path) was the start of Tattered Fates because my powers were disabled by act of plot, making my psyker useless. The others were still useful once they got hold of a weapon since all of their combat training still worked.

If you can't run this battle without nerfing the psyker, despite all the suggestions given, how do you expect to handle other boss fights without doing the same ?

Besides, Hexagrammatic wards are a very potent any-psyker measure that they should expect an Inquisitor to have.

Hexagrammatic Wards on Light Carapace means that even a TB 4 Inquisitor is negating 14 points of damage from each bolt - that means your player would need a 9 or 10 to even give the Inquisitor wounds. No righteous fury, either, so even a very lucky player is only doing 2 damage a round, and has to be within 10m of his target to do so! If he's that hot with his dice, though, An Autogun with manstoppers will probably do him more good!

I'd be wary of venturing into things like "Phase" without serious justifications... Are we talking about a Psyker Inquisitor here, with a signature "phase" power? Is this a Ordos Xenos radical with seriously proscribed xenotech? Is he the Necron Lord posing as an inquisitor in "Xeneology."?

The reason I've nerfed the psyker is because he (the player) rolls unbelieveably very well (most of the time under 10, and often rolls '0's for damage), and coupled with the ability to regenerate and useful skills and minor powers, that made her very dangerous and she's mind-cleansed. She also had explosives that she often used. In any case, I used torpor that affected her abilities for an hour and since when have bad guys played fair? Especially, intelligent and very cunning ex-inquisitor who had taken over most of the sector, and was up against a character that poses the greatest threat (among the PCs).

As for the 'Phase' trait, I attributed that to the amount of time he spent in the warp (and researching it before he fell) and the deal he made with Tzeentch. In any case, I wanted to end the campaign as I was kinda sick of it and am starting a new one. No one in the cell died, unbelieveably, but in the end, except for the pysker, they were in a coma in hospital, slowly growing terminally insane. The psyker was transported to Tzeentch's crystal palace and eventually turned into a minor daemon.

You nerfed a character because the player has rolled well before? O.o

Okay, gamers often curse the dice and complain that the odds just aren't favoring them. But I thought that deep down we all knew that its all just selective memory? Even players who seem very lucky aren't consistently rolling better, it's just that we remember the hits and forget the misses. That one time he rolled really great and blew up that deamon will stick to our memory, however we forget the hundred times he failed his rolls. And even if someone has previously rolled over the norm (this will of course happen sometimes, by pure chance) that does not in any way increase the chance that the player will roll good during the next encounter.

So nerfing based on previous dice rolls rather than actual stats is not a good idea, the coming encounter the player is just as likely to make bad rolls instad of good once (and even more likely to roll average) and suddenly he can't do anything because of unjustified nerfs. Not to mention that it could easily piss players off. Nerfing and killing off (or driving insane, etc) characters because you are bored is bad sport. If you don't want to play the campaign anymore, talk to the players about it instead of railroading them.

Honn said:

Before I get classed as a horrible GM and fun-wrecker, I would like to clarify that I did not originally intend to 'nerf' any of the PCs, especially based on the basis that he/she rolls very well. The intention of the final mission in the campaign was that the acolyte PCs were to find where the rogue inquisitor was hiding, and they were not supposed to be able to defeat him. And the reason I ended the campaign was that i could see no other way and reason for continuing with it. I mean, the adventures surrounding the darkness around almost all the planets in the sector, can only go so far, even with a xenos race from the far future (they entered through a hole in the immaterium where time met).

Yes, I am a fairly new Dark Heresy GM with only a few months of experience so I am bound to make mistakes and i've been DM'ing a DnD campaign since early in the year, so my total GM/DM experience is less than a year. I'm still trying to learn the official rules and background of the WH 40K universe.

I would be very wary of intending the players to fail, especially at the end of a long mission/campaign. That's just pretty demoralizing for any group of players. Make it hard as hell, sure, but give them a fighting chance...all campaigns I've played that ended with party wipes have been very anti-climatic. In my experience it's better to just end the campaign after talking it through with the players, explaining why you don't feel like running it any longer.

Many years ago (and I just made my self feel old...) I had the bad habit of killing of characters. I simply tended to make things a bit to hard so the characters always failed in the end. After a while i got some hints from the players that this wasn't very fun, and since then I have always tried to make sure that there is a way out for the characters.

I could do a certain death scenario in DH though. If the players have made to many mistakes in a campaign and have essentially failed already then I might use one to make sure that they can at least go out in blaze of glory. But the important thing to remember here is that there must be something to win even in this case, the loss must have meaning. Perhaps the characters have failed to stop a deamonic incursion on a planet, and there is no longer anything anyone can do save Exterminatus. The characters will die, but at least they can sell their lives dearly while preventing the Deamon Prince leading the incursion from escaping. And if they hold on for long enough then just when the characters lie there bloody and broken and the Deamon Prince stands victorious, they can look up to see the Cyclon missiles fall from the sky, breaking the mantle of the planet and consuming the deamon in purifuying flames. That way the characters can "win" even though they will die and the planet will fall. Makes the end seem more meaningfull, and probably makes the players more interested in going again.

Actually I could even do that as the intended end if I played with people who I though would like it. Dying does not equal loosing

Nihilius said:

I didn't intend for the players to fail. Their mission was to find out where in the warp the Inquisitor was, and report back (obviously). They found his bio-reading while still on the rogue trader ship and they went onto the space hulk on their own volition and find him in person. I just made if nearly impossible to kill him, that's all. Nobody in the cell actually died, so I wouldn't call it a party-wipe. I just made them unplayable. In any case, the players are cool with it. They play for fun, as I am in it for the fun. Although, one of the players did leave after the session, but it was due to him wanting to concentrate on other things (and actually was waiting for the end of the campaign).

Honn said:

There weren't any actual deaths, though, the Psyker burnt a fate point not to die from the final blow. Except for the Psyker, who was turned into a minor daemon, the others were in a terminal coma. I actually planned for them to realize that they were the ones that caused the planetary 'blackouts' in the first place (via time-travel, courtesy of the Inquisitor), abeit unknowingly, but it turned out to be more anti-climatic when it was played out, and they never realized they had caused it.

By certain death I didn't actually mean that it had to be death. In this regard I am equaling death to mutating into a chaos spawn, going totally insane, falling into a coma or anything else that makes the character unplayable. It's the same thing in the end, you loose the character.

But if all the players are okay with it, more power to you.