So once the CE arrives, with the documentation bearing the Marine and Chapter name. Since it is represented as part of the Deathwatch setting, and the documentation is provided by FFG - Do the Marine and Chapter not in fact become Canon?

Well considering they are filtering out "bad" names, and it is implied that characters are in the Jericho reach, I don't see the issue. The only problem would be if all 2000 copies were labeled of one single chapter, which would make it kind of weird if a codex following chapter had more than 1000 battle brothers in service at the same time.

Where does it say Deathwatch is a codex chapter? Regardless though even non Codex chapters aren't supposed to have more than 1000 marines but Grey Knights are special, I would have thought Deathwatch would have same dispensation.

But still I wouldn't have expected 2000 Deathwatch marines to be in the Jerico reach even if there was that many.

Face Eater said:

Krom isn't referring to Deathwatch being a Codex Chapter, what he is referring to is that if all 2000 customized names were rejected that the default FFG would fill in would make all 2000 Deathwatch CE belong to marines from the Ultramarines Chapter. So in essence if the CE marines are cannon then the Ultramarines Chapter would have a roster of 2000 marines strong and they would all go by the same name to boot

"Where is venerable Brother Verenus?" "

"I'm right here..."

"No the other one?"

" Which one?"

"You know the tall one."

"Oh... Haven't seen him. Check the bolter range."

Face Eater said:

Well I was meaning more that all CE's are labeled Ultramarines or something. But yes, 2000 battle brothers in the Deathwatch is also a bit odd.

KommissarK said:

.... or is it?

We really don't know how many Marines are seconded to the DW at a single time. Spread out over more than one thousands chapters, this is easily doable.

As far as all of them coming from the Ultramarines? Yeah, that would be silly... unless they have been in the DW for sooo long that the Ultramarines say, "****, we're never getting them back, replace Brother Sam with a few new recruits".

Everything published is canon except the parts that aren't.

KommissarK said:

You're presuming that they all are part of the Deathwatch concurrently?

Alex

Face Eater said:

No, I am referring to the Marine's Source Chapter - do they become "official" by extenssion?

Darq said:

I don't see why not. Of course, this may mean that "The Emperor's Pointy Sticks" now is in fact a chapter that is in the canon, which some may have issue with. Or they may reject "silly/bad" names, we'll have to see. I imagine they will eventually release a list of all those who have sworn the oath, and it will be as canon as the list of rogue traders in the Koronus expanse.

Also, on the serving at the same time question? Given that the setting has a specific timeline (like 815 M41 or something), yes, actually, I do imagine that FFG intends to list these space marines being seconded to the Deathwatch at the same time.

As in Battle Brother Grappa from the 'Grapes of Wrath' Chapter suddenly becoming Canon with FFG by default becoming Canon with GW, highly unlikely. nay, nigh improbable. The Storm Wardens had some hoops jumped through, so I would say just a name in a place, while cool, does not make "that Name in that Place" Canon. It's like getting the Space Marine 'dex for 40k proper and using your own history and colors, they are still not Canon.

Attila-IV said:

Lol. That's great.

It'll become "Canon" in that it'll be a list of chapter names published on the FFG website, but I can't imagine that list will be treated with particular reverence by any writers working for GW or FFG. It's not like GW will become afraid to create a new chapter because they're reached their "1,000 chapter limit" based upon material in the list.

Conversely, one would imagine there's a possibility that any particularly groovy or impressive names might run the risk of getting used in official material years down the line, given that one would imagine that the Intellectual Property rights vest in GW.

It's not a big issue, really. It'll be like the Black Crusade sourcebook by BI: that had a long list of Imperial Guard regiments who took part in the crusade; the list was based upon the names of regiments submitted by GW website users. No one should feel restricted by the list of Inquisitors in the Calixis Sector (Inquisitors come and go, and there are plenty of Inquisitors in the Sector not on that list) and the same goes for the Rogue Trader CE list: not every Rogue Trader in the Koronus Expanse is named on that list. Same applies here.

Given that so many people on the "rollcall" thread seem to be selecting existing chapter names anyway, one would imagine it'll never be a huge issue. We might end up with 4-500 new chapter names, some of them will stink, some of them will be amazing, but at the end of the day, so what?

Lightbringer said:

And why not? Chapters come and go.

KommissarK said:

It doesn't necessarily mean all at once!

No one, not even the Administratum knows exactly the number of chapters, and different Chapters existed, exist and will exist. I believe that a list of the created Marines will be publiced along with their chapters. But nothing is GW canon if it is not mentioned in a Codex or a BL book. In that context, as far as i know, the Koronus Expranse and the Calixis Sector etc are not yet themselves canon.

Brother-Captain Polemus Krieg said:

I thought FFA could make canon?

Darq said:

FFG, and yes, if FFG write something for the RPGs (which GW vets to ensure it fits with the canon as GW want/see it), it is considered canon by GW. The Koronus Expanse, Calixis Sector, Jericho Reach, and all the contents of the FFG RPG books is considered canon.

I really hope so (that the FFG printed material is canon) because those detailed regions, with their planets, their inhabitants and their wars in the Emperor's holy name deserve to be canon and have new book series coming out for them conveying the fill of the games. The most exciting thing in an RPG is my opinion a very well fleshed out game world

Brother-Captain Polemus Krieg said:

Let me know when you find one in 40k... (I'm joking... mostly!)

I'm afraid that I'm very much of the opinion that if it has a GW logo on it, or the logo of one of their child companies or licenses, then no matter how bad it is (or how good it is) it's canon. That doesn't mean that I'll accept it without engaging the 'ole grey matter, but it is definitely something that should be considered .

Well, except most of Xenology .

I guess that it is always useful to remember that in the 40k universe one must not mistake "canon" as meaning "universally applicable." Thus, all of the FFG material is canon for Calixis, the Korunus Expanse, Jericho Reach, etc. With Deathwatch this is extended, seemingly, to being Imperium-wide in application to the Deathwatch itself. Still, it's a universe built on "exceptions to an exception of an exception," so somewhere out there I'm sure that there is going to be an example of something that does something completely different to the way that you like or don't like. At least, that seems to be the traditional response to this type of thing.

With regards to the CE, my response to that question would be: "Show me another published book that shows the same information in it." If that's still defined as "canon," then I'm going to get a whole bunch of Post-It notes, a Sharpie, and some White-Out, and I'm going to get me some editing going on...

Kage

Kage2020 said:

You're right, some bad ideas are part of canon for otherwise excellent settings. But you can choose what you would like. Something that someone finds bad is someone else's treasure. And Xenology wasn't that bad . I myself love background books and those include RPGs. The world-building sections of RPGs rulebooks are my favorite part, because of the amount of information.

It's a good bet that they don't get to publish any new fluff for 40K without the people at GW looking it over and approving it. GW is pretty possessive about its IP, and the integrity of it.

And as for the number of Marines in Deathwatch, it doesn't concern itself with the 1,000 limit because it's not an actual Chapter.

The time (820.M41?) doesn't mean a thing to be honest. Their setting has nothing to do with what marine you choose to be seconded to the Deathwatch. I know the marine I have listed from my chapter wasn't there during that time. I more than likely won't even use any of their adventures they have written as I prefer to write my own up. The book is called Deathwatch, not "The Jericho Reach". My setting will more than likely take place in the Segmentum Tempestus, more than likely where my RT campaign does.FFG's canon timeline means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. It mere gives a GM a really good backin which to start up a campaign-in-a-box.

Maybe the setting information would have a meaning in the event of a tie-in fiction series for one of the three RPGs or even all of them. They would like to use character mentioned in the RPG manuals, or center the action around the events that form the backdrom of the games like the Achillus crusade. But this is all my speculation and in RPGs fiction is created every day, whenever a GM writes the next encounter for his/her PCs...

Seriously? The fact that there are (only) 1000 Chapters, but you can (with GW's blessing) create your own Chapter has been a feature of 40k from the start. I dare say over the years there's probably been way more than 1000 Chapters invented, yet canon still says there's only 1000 of them. The fact that you submitted a Chapter name you made up for your CE personalization makes it no more canon than the fact that someone recorded a podcast of their play through of Final Sanction makes that the canon version of those events.

If two people independently submit the same made up Chapter name (certainly not outside the realm of possibility), whose version of their paint scheme becomes canon? The guy who placed his order first? Silly questions like these shouldn't even be debated.