Couple of questions

By Alando, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

1. Is there any rule obligating you to tell your opponent how many cards you have in hand? For the purposes of deciding whether to use Rule by Decree, or do an Intrigue challenge, for example.

2. In another game my opponent had Bronn and Jaime played, with Bronn's ability activated on Jaime. I launched a military attack and stealthed Bronn, with a claim of 1. My opponent knelt Jaime to defend but lost the challenge. He then wanted to play A Lannister pays his Debts to kneel Bronn so he could choose to pay the claim by killing Jaime, then save him with Bronn's effect.

Would this work? ALPHD can only be played after a challenge is lost, so wouldn't the kill effect of the claim already have happened?

Thanks in advance.

Alando said:

1. Is there any rule obligating you to tell your opponent how many cards you have in hand? For the purposes of deciding whether to use Rule by Decree, or do an Intrigue challenge, for example.

You cannot hide your hand. How silly is that?

Alando said:

2. In another game my opponent had Bronn and Jaime played, with Bronn's ability activated on Jaime. I launched a military attack and stealthed Bronn, with a claim of 1. My opponent knelt Jaime to defend but lost the challenge. He then wanted to play A Lannister pays his Debts to kneel Bronn so he could choose to pay the claim by killing Jaime, then save him with Bronn's effect.

Would this work? ALPHD can only be played after a challenge is lost, so wouldn't the kill effect of the claim already have happened?

See flowcharts at FAQ page 19:

1. Determine winner of challenge
2. Challenge result is implemented < Jaime is chosen to die here
3. Reward for unopposed challenge is awarded
4. Renown is awarded

5. Passive abilities

6. Responses

As you see, Bronn couldn't help because he was standing while Jaime was chosen to die.

First, although as far as I know there is no explicit ruling about this, my opinion is the "Unsportmanlike conduct" rule from the tourney rules should apply if one refuses to say how many cards he has in hands. Otherwise I could just write on a paper how many cards he has in hand each times he plays, draw or discard... and he will complain that I'm stalling. I will complain that I'm stalling because he wouldn't say how many cards he has in hand and so on. Ultimately, this could create an infinite loop of people arguing about this. And the FAQ says :

"If, at any time, two (or more) lasting effects create an endless loop that cannot successfully resolve itself, resolve the loop as if neither lasting effect were occurring."

:-D

One should let his card countable by his opponent. One shouldn't even ask how many cards his opponent have in hand and count it by himself since it will otherwise reveal your intention to reveal Rule by decree...

Second,

The framework actions are as follow :

1-3 Determine winner of challenge

You may play save/cancel responses ONLY and not other responses such as A Lannister pays his debts.


1-3 Challenge result is implemented, but it is modified by Bron ability (if it was triggered) because it is a replacement effect (FAQ 3.21) that changes a part of the framework of the game which is the implementation of challenge result.

You may play save/cancel responses ONLY


1-3 Reward for unopposed challenge is awarded

You may play save/cancel responses ONLY


1) Renown award is initiated

2 ) You may play save/cancel responses ONLY

3 ) Renown is awarded

4) Passivie abilities (now triggered) are resolved

5) Responses such as A Lannister pays his debts

6) End of action. Moribunds cards leave play

So the timing does not allow you to kneel Bronn as a cost to pay for a response while framework action events are running.