Naturally my Librarian plyer hit upon the boxed text in the Psychic Powers section that pointed out how useful Unnatural Willpower is for Psykers, so now he's looking for a wy to atain it. It's a trait, and it doesn't seem to be purchasable on any advance chart, is it meant for NPCs only?

T

In the ascension rules for Dark Heresy, it is possible for some characters to gain unnat willpower. Of course, it is exceedingly useful for a psyker. In the case of the librarian though, they also have a high psy rating (as opposed to what most of us are used to in core DH), so overall, he is still very effective. I would say its up to you the GM if you ever want to offer it to him as an elite advance. I'd say try to make him come up with some reasoning/some sort of task he can do to achieve it. Of course, having it makes him very powerful (or at least, should be, I have not seen the Deathwatch psychic powers).

turinmacleod said:

The same sidebar is in the Rogue Trader psychic powers section, and Astropaths can't obtain it either. In most cases, Unnatural Characteristics (of any kind) are for NPCs; I'd be reluctant to allow anyone access to (additional, in this case) Unnatural Characteristic talents without an extremely good reason.

The easiest way to get something like that is possibly the worst way.

A dark pact.

Peacekeeper_b said:

That could be fun...

beware of fun - that leads to the dark side of the force.

Peacekeeper_b said:

This. Most definitely this. Especially as, yes, unnatural willpower is very, very useful to a psyker and would make the Librarian very powerful.

Shamoth said:

AndIm sure Tzeentch will be happy as well.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Many Ascended careers get unnatural traits at rank 9 (which is 1 rank above the final rank in the DH core rulebook and at 13,000 xp). So except for that level of characters then it should probably be disallowed.

FYI, rank 14 (35,000 xp) Primaris Psykers get unnatural willpowerx2. Also, Inquisitors get it at rank 9 (13,000 xp), but they usually go through at least a couple ranks of another career between the DH core rulebook and their rank 9. So, if the characters they are playing are of that level, then it could be allowed, but you should look at the psychic powers to see the effects it will cause for that character. A blurp from the ascension book:

In Ascension, it is possible for psykers to gain the
Unnatural Willpower Trait. The GM should be aware
of the impact of Unnatural Willpower on psychic
powers. Often, it is very high-rated Psykers who
possess Unnatural Willpower, meaning that characters
with this Trait will be considered both extremely
powerful and extremely dangerous by their peers.

So with that info in mind, you as a GM would need to decide if it works in the game you are running.

Suijin said:

Like I said, in most cases - there are a few ways they become available, but they're not particularly common (Ascension is the main exception, Xenos PCs in Rogue Trader is the other - all Orks have Unnatural Toughness and can buy Unnatural Strength, while all Kroot have Unnatural Strength and can buy Unnatural Perception).

Um... is the doubled perception bonus good for anything or do you "only" get the benefit for opposed tests (quite likely with perception) out of it?

All i know is that if another marine went Chaos in my group they would be shot on sight once the others knew, if they knew. So be careful.

Cifer said:

To be fair, given the number of situations in which perception is used to oppose other tests (every commonly-available perception-based skill is used as part of an opposed test at least some of the time), I think that's a significant enough benefit as it is. I'm not sure of any effects that're tied to a perception bonus, but that's not actually a big deal, IMO. Different characteristic scores benefit differently from the Unnatural traits - Unnatural Toughness is rarely used except to multiply the bonus, while Unnatural Intelligence, Perception and Fellowship (and Unnatural Willpower for non-Psykers) primarily affect opposed tests.

It changes somewhat if you use the expanded rules for Unnatural Characteristics from the Inquisitor's Handbook (as skill tests get easier too).

To be fair, given the number of situations in which perception is used to oppose other tests (every commonly-available perception-based skill is used as part of an opposed test at least some of the time), I think that's a significant enough benefit as it is.

That's the reason for the " only " .

Different characteristic scores benefit differently from the Unnatural traits - Unnatural Toughness is rarely used except to multiply the bonus, while Unnatural Intelligence, Perception and Fellowship (and Unnatural Willpower for non-Psykers) primarily affect opposed tests.

Well, intelligence has Medicae tests on lightly wounded patients - but I definitely disagree about Fellowship: the amount of people you can influence at once is dependent on the bonus. A Master Orator would greatly benefit from Unnatural Fellowship, though, funnily enough, I've never seen it in the system (apart from a theoretical dark pact).

But with Unnatural perception, things basically cannot hide from you, the likelihood of the party being ambushed is greatly decreased. I always considered what unnat agility is good for, as it does not affect speed (thats what unnat speed is for), so whats left? Initative? Being able to break out of grabs?

KommissarK said:

- Initiative

- Contortionist, Drive and Pilot have opposed test rules in the Inquisitors Handbook.

- Concealment and Silent move are going to be opposed tests most of the time.

- Shadowing and Sleight of Hand have RAW in RT saying that they are always opposed tests.

Bilateralrope said:

I would think it also affects dodge and acrobatics, dodge being the huge one. Although the acrobatics can be used to leave combat for either a half action or a free action with assassin's strike? talent.

Nope, there is no way bar for Elite Advances that allow Librarians to get Unnatural Willpower. You really don't need it though, because Unnatural Willpower doesn't add tonnes to the new Psy system, it adds a lot more to Dark Heresy's Psy System.

MILLANDSON said:

I'm not even entirely sure how it would benefit a psyker now in the new system... any ideas?

Well, according to the Unnatural Characteristic trait rules, you reduce the degree of difficulty of a Skill Test by one level per multiplier (so for UW (x2), you'd reduce it by one). Then, in Opposed Characteristic Tests, you add the multiplier as additional DoS (so Unnatural Willpower (x2) would add 2 DoS to his roll).

Those are both pretty useful, but no where near as useful as it is in Dark Heresy, where it reaches OP level pretty quickly.

MILLANDSON said:

Is that actually in the Deathwatch version of the rules? Because it's not in the Rogue Trader version, and it only appears (so far) in the Inquisitor's Handbook. On top of that, a Willpower-based Focus Power test isn't actually a Skill Test, and thus isn't subject to this part of the Unnatural Characteristic rules anyway.

ktom said:

You're missing something regarding Unnatural Willpower in RT/DW, though (at least as described by the sidebar in the Psychic Powers chapter of the Rogue Trader rulebook) - it grants a bonus to effective psy rating equal to the multiplier, which isn't subject to (nor does it affect) the limits for whether a power is Fettered, Unfettered or Pushed. As I demonstrated in another thread, dealing with the Farseer in Lure of the Expanse , the effects are noteworthy, as it allows (for example) a Psy Rating 8 psyker with Unnatural Willpower (x2) to unleash powers at effectively Psy Rating 6 without any risk of Psychic Phenomenon, which is essentially another +10 to the Focus Power test and +2 to any Psy Rating derived effects.

That's more than just useful... with a halfway-decent WP score, that's a significant improvement in the reliability, potency and safety of powers.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yep, it's actually in the Deathwatch rules.

And I would have thought that it was a Skill Test in some cases (such as when it uses the Psyniscience skill to test against).

But yea, I missed the Unnatural Willpower bit in the Psychic Power section.

On top of that, a Willpower-based Focus Power test isn't actually a Skill Test, and thus isn't subject to this part of the Unnatural Characteristic rules anyway.

Personally, I'd chalk that one up to a mistake in the wording of the rule - with Unnatural Intelligence, a lore test becomes easier, but a straight intelligence (you know, that characteristic you're supposed to be unnatural at) test doesn't? That doesn't make sense.

While a Librarian might not get access to Unnatural Willpower they do get access to a talent (Bastion of Iron Will) that doubles thier effective PR when resisting hostile mental effects... if you had a base PR 10 then you double it... that's more than even Eldar Psykers can through out.

- Raith

Also, while I have not seen the book myself, alot of things I have heard appear to make use of PR over WB as the means of increasing the effectiveness of a power, so Unnat Will may not be as totally useful as it would be in DH or RT.