here is a debate we are having on the French forum :

Since the plot Fortified position will blank the "Limited" keyword, is it possible to marshall as many "Limited" cards as I want while this plot is revealed?

My guess is that it's not possible since

1) The limited keyword works from your hand because the rules specify : "You may PLAY" only one Limited card per round. However it doesn't say "play from your hand" and thus does not directly refers to an out of play state. My opinion is one always play cards from one's hand by definition (except if otherwise specified) and that this way the Limited keyword DOES refer to an out of play state

2) even if I were wrong on 1), the timing of an action window from the FAQ is the following :

- step 3) from the FAQ (p.15) : action is executed

- step 4) from the FAQ (p.15) :passive abilities are initiated.

The Limited card is actually played on step 3) before it can ever be blanked on step 4). However if a cancel effect were to blank my "Limited" keyword, I could marshall another "Limited" card.

Or maybe the "Limited" keyword would be initiated on step 4) (same time as the blank effect, thus the 1st player would choose which one to apply). But just by reading the definition of "Limited" keyword "You may play..." it does not look like a passive ability that would be initiated from play... but just from your hand... which makes me think that only 1) is the good explanation.

First, can I just point out that the whole question is almost entirely moot? Fortified Position only blanks characters and there is only one character with the Limited keyword, so unless you are trying to play Sea Raiders, none of this applies?

But in case you are trying to play a couple copies of Sea Raiders (or one copy plus some Limited locations), the answer is no. The "Limited" restriction on playing cards is checked in-hand, not on the table. We know this because of the instructions we have for how to initiate an action tell us to check the restrictions placed on executing and action (like playing a card...) before we even add in penalties and modifiers to the cost (see p. 14-15 of the FAQ). So the restriction of playing only 1 Limited card per round is checked when the card is in your hand - during "Step 1" of the action window in which you play the card. Having the card lose its Limited Keyword in Step 3 (when it enters play while Fortified Position is active) does not "undo" the fact that the card was Limited when you played it - or when you checked the Limited requirement.

So, since the FAQ specifically says the play restrictions are checked as part of initiating the action, blanking the Limited keyword after playing the cards does not allow you to get around its limitations.

It makes sense, and I agree with your conclusion, but I'm not sure Limited is a play restriction.

The character abilities part of the FAQ defines a play restriction as

"an element that controls when or how often the character ability may be triggered."

However the FAQ says that Keywords are not characters abilities. So there is nothing that defines the "Limited" keyword as a play restriction. Therefore I think it is not checked on step b)

"b) Check play restrictions, including verificationof applicable targets."

Even if it is not a play restriction, the "Limited" keyword is a card affect and thus active from your hand since it specifically states its ouf of play state through the word "play" from "You may play only one card (of any type) with the "Limited" keyword per round. Playing cards is indeed defined in the rules as playing cards from your hand (p.22).

So I think you cannot even try to play a 2nd Sea Raider even before you determine its cost.

PS : Step b) seems to concern event cards, characters abilities and attachment restrictions. There is a specific definition of "Play restrictions" in the FAQ for event card, attachments cards and characters abilities from which keywords are specifically excluded so I think they did not meant it to be a play restriction.

PS 2 : you guessed right, the guy who asked this question on the French forum wants to play 2 Sea Raiders + Locations and Fortified Positions sees some play in our meta.

I cannot think of any "play restriction" defined by the rules that would apply to characters.

Also, I cannot find the definition of a card effect : are keywords card effects by definition? I think so but I can't find why. I just know deathbound and Ambush are because of FAQ 3.21 and 4.14.

Bolzano said:

First, play restrictions, in a general sense, are elements that control when or how often a player may do a specific thing. You are looking at the definition from a part of the FAQ that is specifically written to discuss character abilities, then saying that since this section confines its discussion to character abilities, that its discussion cannot be specific examples or applications of general definitions. For example, when the rules say that (in the absence of other card effects) you can only declare one of each type of challenge in the challenge phase, isn't this a type of play restrictions? Sure, it is a rule, but how and when is that rule applied? It is applied when you go to initiate the framework event that allows you to declare a challenge. During the initiation of that framework action - during the "check play restrictions" part of initiating that action - you check to see if you are allowed to initiate the particular type of challenge. This is just one example of things that happen during the game that control when or how often a player can initiate a specific action or effect. All of these elements fall under the concept of "play restriction." Said another way, there is no entry or section in the FAQ or rules defining "play restriction" for locations the way it is defined for character abilities. So does that mean the "Use this ability only if you control more King's Landing locations than each opponent" text on King's Landing is NOT a play restriction? If that exact same text were on a character, it would be. So don't assume that just because there is a specific definition for how to identify a play restriction as part of a character ability that there is no general, accepted or common understanding of what a play restriction is in a more general sense.

Second, something does not have to be a character ability (or even a card ability) in order to be considered a play restriction. The rules create plenty of play restrictions as well. If you want to play an OOH card from your hand, you have to pay an extra 2 gold (this is a play restriction in that it controls the conditions under which you can play the OOH card). If a character is identified as a stealth target, it cannot defend in the current challenge (again, a play restriction that controls the conditions under which you can declare defenders). Many card effects - particularly continuous effects - often work by imposing play restrictions on other actions.

"Limited" is like that. Once a single "Limited" card is played, you are restricted by the rules from playing another. This is checked - as a play restriction - when you go to play a card.

Bolzano said:

I can point to a place in the timing structure within the action of playing a card from your hand where the "Limited" effect exerts itself - part b) of initiating an effect where play restrictions (any element that controls when, how or under what conditions a particular action may be taken) are checked.

Bolzano said:

Bolzano said:

- "If a character has been bypassed using Stealth, it cannot defend in the current challenge."

- "Only characters with the appropriate challenge icon can be declares as attacker or defender in a challenge."

These are all elements that control when, how often and under what conditions players may take actions involving characters. They are all types of play restrictions.

Bolzano said:

There is just one last thing annoying me.

I didn't know that when you "cannot" do something you were stopped at step b) checking restrictions, I thought the rules prevented you from even going to step a) or first step (revealing the card/ announcing you want to trigger the effect). But you are right - how do I know that I "cannot" do something - if not on step b) :-)

However, this basically makes legal revealing cards "by mistake" to your opponents since the first step from the FAQ (just before a) and b)) to play a card is revealing it or announcing the effect you are going to trigger.

In addition to the step b) checking playing restrictions, the rules should prevent you from doing stuff you cannot even if there is no check point. Such as during setup you cannot place attachments, but there is no action window and no check point of what you place during the setup. However the rules just says you can't play dup, attachments, more than one limited... all these have no "mechanism for action", but are applied because the rules says so and I don't know why Limited should be different.

And so, although I think your explanation about characters/locations play restrictions is right, seing Limited as a continuous effect active from my hand still makes sense to me.

Also you asked "at what point within the action of playing a card from your hand does the "Limited" effect exerts itself specifically?"

Since (in my opinion) it is a continuous effect, by definition it constantly affects the game and exerts itself permanently. There is no need of an action window for it to exert just as any continuous effect.

Thus, if you can't play a card you are not allowed to reveal it, and if you can and decide to play it, reveal it, and then change your mind, well you just can't take it back into your hand, and the card is discarded if you can't meet the play restrictions. I think its makes more sense than checking everything including what the rules/continuous effects prevent you from doing on step b).

Bolzano said:

If you are unable to do any part of substeps a-f in initiating the effect, you are unable to initiate the effect. This is not the same as "the action initiates unsuccessfully;" the whole thing is just plain illegal. As such, a player must analyze and know that he can meet all of these substeps before he can start the process of initiating an action. So it is not as if I can say "I play Lethal Counterstrike - AND I don't have 2 Stark characters to kneel so it goes back to my hand." I am expected to have noticed that I do not have 2 Stark characters to kneel before attempting to initiate the effect.

In essence, the substeps act as both an order for the action of initiation - on the few occasions when it is important - but more importantly, as a guide for private analysis as to whether or not it is legal to attempt to initiate a player action in the first place.