Feast or Famine (0/5/2)

When you count income, you may choose to add +6 gold to your income. If you do, you cannot initiate challenges this round

If I add +6 to my income and reveal a new plot card after marshalling, can I initiate challenges?

I would suggest sending the question to Nate for official and specific guidance. The effect can be read two different ways:

#1 - If you choose to add +6 gold, you are activating a lasting effect that goes until the end of the round, prohibiting you from initiating challenges. If this is the case, changing the plot card would not remove the lasting effect.

#2 - If you choose to add +6 gold, you are making the "cannot initiate challenges" part of the plot's continuous effect applicable. If this is the case, changing the plot card would remove the continuous effect, making it inapplicable (so you could initiate challenges).

Personally, I interpret it as #2. It is a continuous effect, so the plot card must remain revealed/active in order for the effect to be applicable and binding. Revealing a new plot card after counting gold in Marshalling should allow you to initiate challenges.

Continuous effects usually have a formula like "if A, then B while C;" which is how this reads to me. On the other hand, lasting effects usually take a form more like "if A, then B until C." The lack of the word "until" here seems to make this more of a continuous effect (requiring the presence of the plot card) than a lasting effect (not dependent upon the original card once it has been activated).

But I could be wrong in this interpretation/reasoning - hence the suggestion to check with Nate.

Thanks for the answer, ktom. I understand it as #1 (lasting) but I don't really know how to reason it so I will send the question to Nate and will post the clarification here.

My guess is this is a lasting effect. The FAQ defines lasting effects as

"Effects that last for longer than a single action are considered lasting effects."

Here the wording "this round" indicates that the effect lasts longer than a single action.

However, it is not a continuous effect because it has a point of initiation : "when you count your income".

The FAQ specifically excludes effects having a point of initiation from continuous abilities :

"Constant Abilities: Constant abilities are those that are continuously affecting the game state. Because there is no point of initiation, they cannot be canceled."

However it seems continuous plot effect are not continuous abilities it would need confirmation as ktom said.

Bolzano said:

Okay, so how about a card such as Ser Rodrik Cassel who says "Ser Rodrik Cassel gets +2 STR while defending." Is that a continuous effect? His STR boost only applies if he has been declared as a defender, so doesn't that mean there is a point of initiation - declaring him as a defender? Or what about CS-Melisandre and her "while Melisandre is standing, Asshai characters get +1 STR." Since the ability initiates each time she stands, it is not a constant ability, right?

Obviously wrong in both cases. They are continuous effects. Once they become applicable, they have no point of initiation upon which resolution of the effect depends.

Don't confuse a condition upon which a continuous effect becomes active with a point of initiation. "When you count your income" is not a point of initiation for the "you cannot declare challenges" effect. Nothing is triggered or activated when income is counted that causes the player to be unable to initiate challenges. Rather, if a player has chosen to add +6 income, then an additional effect is applicable that stops the player from initiating challenges. It is no different than the "while standing" condition on Mel or the "while defending" condition on Rodrik. The continuous effect is applicable if another condition (taking +6 gold) is true, then the continuous effect is applicable. If that condition is false, the continuous effect is not applicable.

I agree about Mel and Rodrick effects.

ktom said:

However I don't think there is additional effect here, my guess is that the whole sentence is just one effect because the effect is not split into 2 different paragraphs.

The FAQ says :

"Separate effects will always be separated in a different paragraph." (p.10).

"When you count income" is a point of initiation for the passive effect "you may choose to add +6 gold to your income". Since the 2nd part of the effect is the same effect it should have the same point of initiation.

Nate just answered my mail and confirmed that it's a lasting effect which lasts until the end of the round. Revealing a new plot card won't allow you to initiate challenges once you've taken the +6 gold.