A thought occurred to me after our first 3 player game in which Ray wiped the floor with the rest of us. His memory cards that the other players get are bad for him, and in a 5 player game, there are 4 of them. Since each one has an independant trigger, when playing with 3 players, Ray only gets 2 bad cards played during the game. With 5 players, he potentially gets all of them played on him.

Since the number of players scalability works with regards to dark cards (# of your dark cards drawn being roughly the same irrespective of number of players), I found it a bit odd that Ray's memory cards are not just all divided out between the other players. So, 1 each in a 5er game. 2 each in a 3er game, and 1 other player in a 4er game gets 2 of them?

Without this, surely Ray is stronger (less weak) in a 3er game?

Hmmm, no replies...

Anyway, we are about to have another 3 player game today and I'm going to try it with all of Ray's memory cards in play, dealt to by the other players. A lot of FFG games seem to mainly work with the max number of players - I'm thinking this one might be the same, and with only 3 players, Ray only has 2 of his memory cards out there, which I think makes him too good.

I'm interested to hear how that game goes.

I would tend to think that, with fewer players, the greater concentration of any players dark cards in others hands would balance out the lessened number of Memory cards. Let us know how it goes.

Unfortunately, my players didnt turn up today, so no game. However, to answer your question about # of dark cards...

The way I see it (and I may be wrong) is that if you are playing Ray in a 3er game, that is two other people to play dark cards on you. However, they are also playing cards on each other. So on average, half of each players cards will be against you. 2*0.5=1

In a 4er game, there are 3 other people playing cards on you, but they have 2 other targets as well as you, so only a third of their dark card picks on average will be yours. 3*0.33 = 1

Thats what I meant by player scalability, no matter how many players in the game, Ray will (along with all other characters) get roughly the same number of dark cards played on them during the game - No problems there at all.

Rays memory cards however are not divided amongst the players, so Ray has a lot more cards against him in a 5er game than he does in a 3er game - and there is no scalability on that at all. I'm thinking of running through a 2er game tomorrow and giving Louis all 4 of Ray's memory cards

you are definately correct - raymond doesn't scale well.

My biggest gripe is that stupid card:

"Play when Raymond gets into a Fight on the Moon..."

I mean, come on. This sounds like an article of tax law or something! Play on Raymond if you are not a pensioner and have not applied for a water tank rebate in the past 27 months, or have not lodged a previous claim for fringe benefits tax...."

Too many of Ray's cards are waaaay too specific. If you get dealt the moonfight card in a 3 player, you can pretty much expect it to do nothing all game.

Omnisiah said:

And as soon as the player who gets Ray knows about the cards, two of them can easily be avoided. Never draw to 7 cards, and avoid the Memorial thing on the beanstalk. The not getting into a fight on the moon is less easily avoided, but in my 3 games with Ray, it has never had the opportunity to be played.

The only good memory card against ray is the one that should be played at the start of round 1 against him. Move him somewhere and he loses 3 time.

Omnisiah said:

Happened to me. Twice.

I like the idea of dealing out ALL the memory cards, regardless of # of players.

Played this once, with all new players, 5 of them...

I was Ray

Why is Ray so good? I didn't get that

Also, I think some of those memory cards were harsh, and I actually had the "fight on moon" played on me...

...Idless

Paul Grogan said:

Like, on the moon? Somewhere where it will be hard for him to avoid a fight? hehehe...

Referee said:

Except that he starts off with a dropship pass, so he can immediately move back to the Earth again.

I've played in one game of Android, and watched 3 more being played. I've never seen any of Ray's memory cards played, except the Move Ray to the bar, and he loses time. I had the get into a fight on the moon card in the game I played. And he was on the moon! But, no, no one played a fight card on him. It was really fustrating.

(Though, it has to be said, I won that game by...a lot...only cause I never play board games so they all under estimated me and my psychic powers)

The other games I watched, Ray won two, and Floyd one one.

It would seem that maybe having more of Ray's cards out could help to knock him down a bit.

RebekahWSD

I think Ray has a big weakness in his plot... i dont know but when somebody put enough bad baggage on it he loses a lot of VPs. His other VP are conspiracy tokens, that can be beaten by other players too ... has no alternative as floyd or caprice to buy haas or jinteki tokens so easily ...

It is pointless to use less memory cards in fewer players, i would vote for "play with all of them everytime" too.

Its not weakness if you know about it, and read those cards is not that hard isnt it ?

Well when players know how the other charcters work, then they also know what to do against those decks. Yeah Ray might have Dark Cards that are really specific to certain situations, well a shift planting the evidence tokens at the right places, ea moon and so on will make him have to move to these places. Then there is the, how many dark cards will a player potentially play on another player during a game.

I've never seen a game were players take the same amount from each of the others dark pile, it always comes down to a player is either leading or you know that cards can hurt him more now then the others, so you go for his, or just small grudge against him for playing that dark card on you last. ;D

I normally take more dark cards from the pile of the character after me, cause he will be handing me leads to place, which I can manipulate them easier to enter places I want them to enter.

Last time I played Floyd I was unlucky but also lucky that all my Tech Upgrade cards was in the bottom of my light deck, this meant that I never got some of the cool upgrades, but it also meant that I wasn't harmed by alot of my dark cards.

I will look at Raymond more focused next time we play, but I think that most have the oppertunity to manipulate him and the others enough by how things are played out to get them to move into traps.

I have another question about Raymond. Does memory cards counts as black cards ? i ask because of limit 1 black card per event (start turn etc). Memory arent black cards (not by rules) so it is possible to play lose 3 time black card and lose 3 time memory card in one turn ... isnt this a little too much ?