crisaron said:
My understanding is that BI wanted three separate books, Dark Heresy; where you investigate; Rogue Trader ; where you explore; and Deathwatch; where you destroy. While the core mechanics have remained the same, this is a business we're talking about and by having a core book with just the rules just won't fly. Paying $30-40 for around ~50 pages, note I got the number from RT core and with that just "Playing the game" section as I see GM's content section has to be for each individual game. Then another X amount of $ for the setting books, seeing how each book there's separate character creation, skills, talents, weapons, how to GM it, different fluff, and so on.
It makes more sense in the long run to have three separate books each with their own play style and power level amongst a huge setting. Sure ~50 or so pages in each book are essentially repeated, and talents and skills are also repeated but having to flip through two books just to create a character I doubt would go over so well. Then there's the printer's cost, FFG would be paying the printing press to print the ~50 pages, then the other 300+ x3 for the individual campaigns. It's a waste of money to just print out ~50 pages, so I think the reason why they didn't do so would be the cost.
That's my cracked up theory.
Manyfist said:
My understanding is that BI wanted three separate books, Dark Heresy; where you investigate; Rogue Trader ; where you explore; and Deathwatch; where you destroy. While the core mechanics have remained the same, this is a business we're talking about and by having a core book with just the rules just won't fly. Paying $30-40 for around ~50 pages, note I got the number from RT core and with that just "Playing the game" section as I see GM's content section has to be for each individual game. Then another X amount of $ for the setting books, seeing how each book there's separate character creation, skills, talents, weapons, how to GM it, different fluff, and so on.
It makes more sense in the long run to have three separate books each with their own play style and power level amongst a huge setting. Sure ~50 or so pages in each book are essentially repeated, and talents and skills are also repeated but having to flip through two books just to create a character I doubt would go over so well. Then there's the printer's cost, FFG would be paying the printing press to print the ~50 pages, then the other 300+ x3 for the individual campaigns. It's a waste of money to just print out ~50 pages, so I think the reason why they didn't do so would be the cost.
That's my cracked up theory.
Yup a 50 page book + a bunch of basic skill / power/ items / armors details etc. that is cheaper then the big books that all players can buy and use as a reference. Then you enter mode specific book needed only by the DM.
I often wonder if RPG maker actually play RPG a booklet of the rules is so useful we usually .pdf the core anyway.
ak-73 said >>>
I suggest you stop that kind of talk.
My apologies. I merely forgot the smiley to show that it was tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps you did too.
H.B.M.C. said >>>
There's no point in debating this with any of you.
It's just more Internet Hyperbole and parades of Strawmen.
Good day.
With all due respect, it strikes me that "the lady doth protest too much" in this case. As far as I can tell, your suggestion that it is a "straw man" revolves around the idea that people are not accepting that FFG have selected a way to do something, or continued with a protocol that BI have established, and regardless of the motivations they're unlikely going to change. I think that everyone can agree that is the case.
On the other hand, what seems to have developed is the age 'ole discussion as to the relative merits of the two different approaches with a specific "analysis" of the 40k RPG line. ak-73's comment about why Warhammer FRP didn't receive a similar treatment remains valid, especially when it can be reasonably show that similarly themed products would have been viable for that concept if not necessarily the implementation (i.e. the current incarnation of the rules and their associated "bling").
However, what the "argubate" seems to be taken as is some form of hissy-fit that "I didn't get my way!" which doesn't seem to be the case when most people have admitted to the obviousness that things aren't going to change, or even recognised that the license may have covered the specific releases or even the "formula" of production (core, players guide/extended armoury, three-book campaign, etc.).
I don't know where that puts the strawmen, but I'm fairly sure that it lies on the other side of the Yellow Plot Road.
Manyfist said >>>
My understanding is that BI wanted three separate books, Dark Heresy; where you investigate; Rogue Trader ; where you explore; and Deathwatch; where you destroy. While the core mechanics have remained the same, this is a business we're talking about and by having a core book with just the rules just won't fly. Paying $30-40 for around ~50 pages, note I got the number from RT core and with that just "Playing the game" section as I see GM's content section has to be for each individual game. Then another X amount of $ for the setting books, seeing how each book there's separate character creation, skills, talents, weapons, how to GM it, different fluff, and so on.
You're understanding with regards to the nature of the books seems comparable to everyone elses. On the other hand, the suggestion of what is "unique" content differs from some others at least. For example, Talents and Skills are broadly similar with the exception of the introduction of Master/Paragon talents which is an extra layer of crunch over the top of the existing system. There's no real need to replicate them when a section on "New Talents" could arguably be just as appropriate. Same with skills, weapons, etc.
Again, as per Cifer's comments, I'm fairly sure that I'm underestimating the uniqueness of the materials in each of the books, but I'm also fairly sure that it is being over-estimated by others. Further, by "Core Rules" it doesn't mean just "Playing the Game," nor does it necessarily require that it cost $30-40.
Manyfist said >>>
It makes more sense in the long run to have three separate books each with their own play style and power level amongst a huge setting. Sure ~50 or so pages in each book are essentially repeated, and talents and skills are also repeated but having to flip through two books just to create a character I doubt would go over so well.
Although not a fan of the system, I have used it to create some characters (in one case frustrated creation) in the 40k RPG system. Suffice to say that they all included significant page flipping. And as soon as you up the complexity of the character, for Dark Heresy at least that's a whole lot of page flipping. Hell, even GM-assisted I can remember having to flip through four books to get a sense for the character (DH, IH, DotDG, and tRH, though the last two were more complimentary than not and to shore up some of the shortfalls in DH).
Four books, one character. (For the sake of honesty, I've cycled through more books for other systems, but only really when dealing with genre/campaign crossovers.)
Oh, and from I only got about 100-or-so pages of setting specific information. Admittedly, now that I think about it I did exclude the page-eating "level skill" thing that the game has going on.
crisaron Reply #52 | Published on 24 August 2010 - 10:23:14
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Ah well, such is the way of buyer preference. It's all good, though, until you need to find an index... 
With that said, given the flaring of frustrations in the normal fashion for this board, perhaps time for me to leave it alone and go back to doing something productive/creative.
Kage