Hi,

I'm new to fantasy Warhammer, and wanted to find out a few thing (mostly lore wise).

As far as I know wizards are... Disliked, to say it midly, across the Empire. But then again, there are formal schools of magic for wizards. My question is, how do wizards walk about without witch hunters turning them into hamburgers? Do they have some kind of "liscence" papers (which can then be forged, lost, torn, burnt or w/e. Being totaly unrelieble)? Or maybe some kind of other mark of wizardry?

Also, once a wizards legal status is established, how much enfluential power does he wield? I mean, who has more say a witch hunter or a journeyman wizard? A master Wizard or a priest of sigmar? An apprentice wizard or a captain in the emperial army?

Thank you.

I have been thinking about it recently, and IMO the Acolytes (2 rank Wizards) have a greater impact on the folk than they have in 2 ed., but I would be pleased to hear people's opinions on power and reputation of the wizards and priests careers, too.

I'm actually not looking for an answer dependant on editions, but more from a lore point of view.

Wow great question! I would like to here from Jay on this one.

The way I perceive it, is that wizards are accepted, because they're important for the Empires defence. I tend to regard them as ABC weapons, we fear them, and would rather like them not to be at all, but since our enemy has them, we have them as well.

Also wizards are accepted in big cities, amongst the more educated, but when you venture into smaller villages, then a wizard might find the populace less friendly, to say the least. Also I think the priest hood are in general opposition to wizards, viewing them as dangerous to the Empire and also bordering chaos.

I make it very clear to my players, that playing a wizard is dangerous business, not only due to the forces at work, but also due to people's general dislike to them. Have a wizard walk through a village (and showing he's a wizard), and then the same time have a hailstorm hit the village destroying all crops. This will lead to bonfire being build, and said wizard bound to the stake.

By tradition a witch hunter is not allowed to burn or otherwise kill a wizard unless they can prove that he practices the dark arts. Even so the apprehended suspect should be taken to a wizard of light for further inspection (that rarly happens if the Witch-Hunter in question allready have found proof of chaos whorshipp). The college of Light, which traditionally have higher authority than a witch-hunter when it comes to verify accusation of sorcery, will than make their evaluation.

three things can happen to a wizard accused for crimes against magic

1) found guilty turned over to the Witch hunter
2 found guilty but punished by their own college (punishment include: flogging, exile, execution or Pacification*)
3) found innocent and released.

*Pacifiaction is a guarded practice of cutting away the part of the soul capable of seeing and casting magic. In short the accused sorcerer loose his ability to ever cast spells.

All wizard apprentices are supposed to have a letter of introduction from their master, claiming he is a sanctioned spellcaster. This can be quite funny since in the new edition the Witch hunter don`t have Education and thus can`t read.

further all colleges have records of their members and they are open to inspection by higher authorities.

Remember part of being a wizard is to actually root out renegade wizards, and all colleges have a duty and responsibilites to turn all sorcerer, witches or malpractioners of the art over to the right authorities. which is the right authorities is up to debate.

But A wizard can never be entirely sure or safe when it comes to Witch hunters or an angry mob (try waving your letter of sanction in the face of an incited mob).

That there is no right or formal code on how Witch-hunters and wizards should relate is what I like about warhammer, these murky grey waters where laws are bended is so warhammer. what I have written here is my interpredation of the lore, and should not be taken as official. I simply offer my view of it.

Ps: I do know that some Witch-Hunters do cooperate with wizards in order to bring in particular dangerous sorcerers or renegades, I do hope that such team effort will bring the gap closer. it will serve the empire`s best interests.

Wow, great answer Mal.

I gotta ask you, is everything you said your own interpertation or does some of if has basis? It just sounds like the whole buisness with the college of light is pretty straightforward and not open to interpertations...

abcdzyxw said:

Thanks, I have to admit that much of my interpretation of said lore, comes from the second edition and Realms of Sorcery, in lack of anything more concrete from the 3rd edition (which despise the magic box is quite lacking). That said I as a GM use the lore of the 2nd edition until something new comes along and superseeds the old lore.

its up to the individual GM where he wants to put his weight about the practice of magic. In my 2nd E campaign I gave the White order a lot of authority when it comes to malpractice and witchcraft. Being one of the most respected colleges of Magic, and their crusade against chaos and deamons, certainly gives them some weight. For me Order of Light where highest morale authority you could find among practioners of the magic art.
so naturaly when my party discovered a young teenage girl with the "gift" their goal was to get her to the Order of Light, and at the same time avoid a group of notorious Witch-hunters who where on their tail.

Well enough side tracking for me. A full fledge sanctioned wizard, unlike the apprentice don`t have a letter of licence. his tattoos, brands, emblems and items will be enought to signifiy his membership to the college and order, not to mention robe and cloak. And most secular and religious authorities will be able to identify such as a sanctioned mage. But in rural communities or backward villages, this can be tricky or downright deadly (especially since wizards are not supposed to hide their profession).

And if a wizard enter a town or city where there is a guild or chapter house belonging to his order, it is considered good practice and a mark of respect to make himself known.

Good gaming

Thanks mate, you helped alot

Nice write up Mal !

Imperial wizards dont have written "licenses" but they have tattoos, specific order items, emblems, amuletts etc. to proof to the authorities (watchmen, patrol, witch hunters) that they are official wizards belonging to an recognized order. Most of the time thats enough to be left alone, but of course not always. It depends much on the situation and the psychological profile of the hunters the wizard meets.

Additionally they have to give informations if they want to leave a city or go onto a journey to their order superiors.

If your wizard cannot proof that he belongs to an imperial order, he counts as unlicenced, and becomes a hot snack for any witch hunters who crosses his path.

This is a great subject, because it can show how complex Warhammer politics can be, and how multifaced it's law is. It is a complex world, after all, with many written words and speculation among Imperial Authorities themselves.

I deeply recommend reading Realms of Sorcery from 2e, it's a great book. You probably can find it in pdf if you don't want to buy it right away.

From 2e, when Magnus the Pious created the Wizard Orders (through the teachings of Teclis), he also created some rules in which to prevent, or at least diminish, Wizard-Witch Hunter antagonism; and also to keep Wizards out of the Imperial politics. Interesting to notice that he also proclaimed one official Witch Hunter institution, the Templars of Sigmar, and regulated them as well.

So, a Wizard that is suspect of betrayal (by the most heinous crime of worshipping Chaos or any other type of betrayal) should be hand over to it's College of Magic. As it wa salready said here, this is something that doesn't happened always. The Colleges probably complain, officially or not, everytime a Sanctioned Wizard is burned without passing through College investigation, but they propably leave at that.

There is an hierarchy of whom a Sanctioned Wizard must answer to, but ultimately the Colleges answer directly to the Emperor. This was to prevent a Wizard being used by someone of the nobility, or even an Elector Count, to play political games, or rage war against other nobility (a practic that happened a lot in the Empire's history).

A Witch Hunter would never answer a Wizard; neither a Wizard a Witch Hunter (not officially, not that I know of, but he could see himself obliged to do it to prevent being subject to some investigation). But a Witch Hunter can ask a Wizard for help in any investigation, or even request it officially. I do think the Wizard can (officially) deny it, provide he gives suficient explanation (again, to prevent being questioned as a suspect would be a great motivation).

There are, or at least were (before an Insanity was part of the career, at least), many types of Witch Hunters. There were some so rigid (and paranoid) that the idea of having Sanctioned WIzards was unnaceptable, even if 200 years has passed since Magnus' time. But there are others that seemed to see Wizards as useful tools: use the power of Chaos against itself, and keep a close eye on it also. Among the priesthood it is the same. There were even some quotes from one Sigmar's Priest or another in 2e books saying something very similar to that.

And about "how to recognise a Wizard", there is one other thing that was not mentioned here yet: Sanctioned Wizards work magic in a different way than anybody else. Hedge magic is just too disorganized. Chaos Magic, Dark Magic, Necromancy all use Dhar, a dissonant mixture of different winds of magic. And High Elves uses... how was it called? Anyway, the winds harmonically intermingled.

Sanctioned Wizards focus in one Wind, and one Wind only. That was the way Teclis saw was safer to human minds, which are unable to deal with more than one wind without putting themselves in too much danger. So a Wizard practices just one Wind, and becomes attuned with it, and deals with Magic just with this one Wind, even if remaining capable of seeing the others (and even using Dhar, if they fall sufficently low or desperate). What happens is that the Wizard in question ends up becoming more and more as an aspect of that Wind and everything it represents. As stronger as a Sanctioned Wizard gets, more regular folks can percieve them as different, even disturbing. So it is kind of easy to recognize them for what they are.

Witch Hunters hold immense power. They rarely have to put wizards down themselves, usually it's enough to just incite the local mob to killing the wizard.

That way a witch hunter can allways claim not to have part in the killing, "what ya gonna do against an angry mob of 50 peasants?"

And thus a carefull witch hunter will never have to answer to colleges, if in doubt use the mob, if not claim the honour of killing the witch yourself.

"A Sanctioned Wizard"

Is a Wizard's schooling subsidized by the Emperor? If yes, what are the wizard's obligations? In my old campaign, the fellow who played a Wizard also had a back-up character for him to use when his magic-using PC was called up for service in the army.

BlackBaron said:

Ok, I've picked my Realms of Sorcey. Oh, I really love this books!

Yes, all Colleges of Magic are subsided by the Emperor, at least in terms of being authorized by Emperor's decree, under the Emperor's polithical wing and answering to the Emperor's call. They support themselves monetarily - and quite well.

I'll quote RoS, page 61, Chapter IV: The Imperial Colleges of Magic, under "The Orders and the Colleges":

"The Colleges of Magic are places of learning and political institutions, with physical buildings and a collection of apprendices, Magisters (a title indicating a Wizard is full member of a College and therefore licensed to practice and teach magic), and various servants. The Colleges have centralised buildings to allow the Emperor to contact the Patriarchs, or at least senior members, of the Orders of Magic when he needs to.

The Orders of Magic are the lores, personalities, philosophies, ideals, rituals, traditions, and goals that theColleges impart to their apprendices. But the Orders are also far-reaching, highly secretive societies with the distinct identities and agendas. Imperial Magisters claim that the essence of their Orders are not found in buildings or dusty tomes but in the actual pursuit, manipulation, and embodiment of the Winds of Magic that lie atthe heart of their Order's Lores."

and page 64, under "The Articles of Imperial Magic":

"Having been advised by Loremaster Teclis and Finreir, Emperor Magnus knew all magic came from the same nightmare Void as the Demons Gods of Chaos - just as he had been told throughout his Sigmarite upbringing. But Magnus also realised that just as Human spellcasters had proven useful on the battlefield againts the servants of Chaos, they could also aid the Empire in far more profound and long-term ways if they were trained well enough and watched closely by other authorities;

A few months after his return to Nuln from Kislev and his victory over the Chaos Hordes, Emperor Magnus ratified and made law in the presence of all the surviving Electors his wartime decree that had lifted the ban on the controlled use of magic and the practice of spellcraft. Though there was some resistence to his decision, particularly from Theogonist of the Sigmarite Cult and the High Priest of the Cult of Ulric, all protestations were swept aside and thelaw was passed thourgh Magnus' powers of persuasion, force of will, and his political influence in the wake of his stunning military success against the blasphemous Northern Hordes.

The Impreial Colleges of Magic were formally created in 2304 I.C., as part of Magnus' sweeping reforms to Imperial Law. To free the Colleges to study and use magic, while also keep all the Empire's new Wizards under his control, Magnus drafted and passed (with the guidance and advice of Teclis, teh Theogonist, the Ar-Ulric, and several respected nobles and generals of the Empire), the Articles of Imperial Magic. These Articles defined the foundations of the Imperal Colleges of Magic that would garner the Empire with highly trained and dependable Magisters who were sworn to defend it if need be. The Articles also re-instated a partial ban on magic by defining anyone not a member of one of the new Colleges found wilfully using magic to be a "practitioner of dire witchery" and stating they should be exiled or put do death for the good of all."

The text goes on, stating things like:

- no one can attack illegally or unprovocally any College, as it was to be considered an attack on the Emperor himself.

- every initiate of magic must adhere all of the law's bindings under pain of being killed, and if a College break with the law, it's permission to exist will be revoked.

- it limits how much of a political power a Magister can have. There is a part of the Article in the book which states the order of obedience to any Magister: 1) ideals and laws of the Empire; 2) the Emperor; 3) Supreme Patriarch of all the Colleges; 4) laws and ideals of the Magister's Order; 5) Patriarch of his Order; 6) then to "authorities that each Magister may be required to serve ni the course of his duties"; 7) "then to other superiors within their Order."

- there are many grey areas in the Articles. there are speculation about if Magnus drawed the Articles to be that way to prevent Imperial Institutions of having too much hold over one another, or if the Articles had been changed through the years. these grey areas had been used by the Magisters and Colleges and Witch Hunters and political authorites alike. the grey areas are such as "demonstrably good reason" and "reasonable request for specifi service".

- the Articles prevent Magisters of engaging in activities that could alter the political structure of the Empire, thus preventing them on enganig in the Electors Counts' conflicts of interest.

- this parts of the excerpt of the Articles may be of special interest to players and GM:

"All Magisters may expect to receive accommodations, benefits, respect, and fair treatment, as would befit any noble of Sigmar's Holy Empire, while in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire.

All Magisters are permitted to pursue agreements of employment with any persons or organisations: civil and religious, public and private, noble and mercantile, providing their employers are not enemies of Sigmar's Holy Empire or the people and that will not lead to the breaking of any of these Articles.

All Magisters are required to seek out out magic users as may exist within the bounds of Sigmar's Holy Empire to ascertain their suitability to join one of the Orders of Magic, or else report them te Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar, or else destroy them if they prove to be of immediate and grave menace to Sigmar's People.

All Magisters are required to render such aid as is deemed necessary to the Holy Orders of the Templars of Sigmar, should said Templars provide satisfactory proof that the servant of malignancy they face is beyond their capacity to capture or destroy without magical means."

- at last, regarding the Witch Hunters, from page 66:

"...Magnus also both reaffirmed and limited ni the Articles of the so-called Obsidian Edict of 2004 I. C. in which the Cult of Sigmar claimed the sacred duty of hunting down and wiping out witchcraft, necromancy, daemonology, sorcery, and Chaos-worship in the Empire. It was reaffirmed in the sense that Witch Hunters were acknowledge as a social force - possessing a prime mandate to track down, try in a court of law, and even execute Witches, Warlocks, Necromancers, Mutants, Chaos worshippers, and other renegades; but they were forbidden from pursuing sanctioned Magisters of the Orders of Magic or their apprendices, unless asked for aid by a legitimate spokesman of a College to track down a Magister that had turned traitor, or unless the witch hunter were witness to an abominable act by the hand of a sanctioned Magister.

The Witch Hunters were also required to turn over any magic user age twenty-fiveyears old or less to Collegiate authorities, providing the magic user was not guilty of daemon worship or witchcraft and had not commited and abominable act."

Uff... All of that comes from 2e, really. I think we don't know as yet how 3e will shape this organizations, but I do love 2e material.

I won't go in depth as there have been some great replies, but one of the things that helps me, as a GM, is a small mechanic I integrated called 'Purity Seals'.

You see purity seals on many of the models (in both Warhammer and 40k). It's a piece of parchment, usually a strip from a holy text, or perhaps written as a testimony, and affixed to an object or person with a small round wax seal.

The lore I added states that proper purity seals can only be affixed to items or persons who are pure and free of taint. Should that object later become tainted, the purity seal will shatter and fall off, as it cannot maintain its integrity if corruption is present.

The application of a seal is a complicated process and requires artifact level components to create (such as a page from a most holy book). The ritual can only be performed by high ranking church officials. Your players can't run around with a pocket full of them poking them at things to see if they stick.

This has lead to many interesting situations. Situations like seals popping at very inopportune or conspicuous moments, forged seals, rejected seals, and other interesting roleplay opportunities.

On rare occasions, like at the end of books and long story arcs, I will occasionally a award my players with a seal (or two) that they can stick on something. Once affixed, it is permanent until it is destroyed. I always make a big dramatic scene as the seal fuses to the object.

Purity seals provide me with a vehicle to award my players with equipment that they are sure is not corrupted. After all - they don't quite trust me...

What does this have to do with wizards? Some of my NPC wizards will have purity seals on them as part of their sanctioning papers, branding them as clean and uncorrupted. My players usually go through this process to keep the witch hunters at bay (or at least at arms length). Being free of taint does not mean you're not evil, but it helps you make an argument if you get in a jam.

Pedro Lunaris said:

In your opinion, does the aforementioned term "Magister" refer to the Acolytes or Wizards (or maybe to both?) in 3rd edition?

By the way, who wield more power: local authorities of an average city (like Bogenhafen) or an Acolyte?

Cheers

Hard to say who has more power. The wizard would have knowledge on magical subjects that would often be far beyond the knowledge of local authorities. However I can't see the local authorities appreciating an outsider meddling in their affairs.

Each institution within the empire has its own rights and duties; however it is often unclear how these different groups are meant to interact. In any given situation I imagine it would depend on the individuals involved and their personalities as much, if not more than the official power structure that should be in play in ideal circumstances.

I imagine most people in the Empire sort of "play it by ear", in other words push your rights until someone else pushes back...

regards,

ET

Armoks said:

Good question. To me, Magister would apply to both, snice when a Wizard stops being an Apprendice he becomes a Magister. In 3e, the first career was Apprendice Wizard, the second Jorneyman Wizard and the third Master Wizard, if I'm not mistaken. The term "Acolite" probably came to replace the Jorneyman.

Regarding your second question, in my opinion, a Wizard does not have any political power. They do not own any authority of their own, not in matters outside of magic, at least. They would have to be holding some official letter, caring the work asked by some noble or politician, or to have some title granted to them. A Wizard would only have something to say in any town about other Wizards or magic-users, speciallyu those of the same Order of them, in which case they do have more authority.

That is the way I would handle the question, anyway.

Armoks said:

Bogenhafen would have eaten the acolyte as breakfast. The city is ruled by a council made up of merchant family dynasties of the region. further they are supported by the Cult of Handrich (god of commerce, wealth and trade). Beacuse of the particular cutting knife politics and greed policy, any one outsider attempting to challenge the authority of that town, would most likely meet an early demise.

My point is no matter who you are as a PC even a lofty wizard, will soon find problems if they think that by just acquiring a certain rank (acolyte), they will have the right to meddle and take action over local authorities.

Even small hamlets would oppose any strangers thinking they could rule better than themselves, and waving a piece of paper or a robe, wont take you fare in the warhammer world. trust is essential here. The good but albeit greedy merchant lords of Bogenhafen will need to trust the Acolyte before they grant him any authority at all. Otherwise they will look at him as just another competitioner. If the acolyte could convice the merchant council that necromantic powers is the reason why the town`s extensive sewer system is full of ghouls and undead, he might be given authority in that case to help out.

In warhammer (empire) you have to work to gain trust and authority. Even nobles find it hard to be taken serious if they can`t walk the talk. It is not Bretonnia after all.

Thanks very much, Mal Reynolds, Pedro Lunaris and ErrantThought for your replies.

Cheers

(Warning: I prefer the 1st edition background, don't like the simple black/white picture that much WFB-inspired fluff presents, and am not overly fond of the coloured colleges of magic, or how they're often interpreted. I love political complications, however.)

My answer to all these questions is: politics.

To me, wizards are more independent, but they are also powerful and organised. They can do stuff that nobody else can, so many nobles, towns, merchants and indeed the emperor himself would like to be able to use their services. They don't like it when you kill their resources. Then again, it's more about the general support of wizard's guilds than the life of individual apprentices. An influential witchhunter who makes a strong case against an unimportant wizard, can probably get away with it. But burn too many wizards, and people get upset.

It depends on the wizard, too. A wizard who's a known trouble maker, making politically unpopular claims, and not obeying his superiors, might make it tempting for people to fabricate evidence against him. (Who needs evidence anyway? Just burn him, and give the witchhunter a public slap on the wrist and a secret pat on the back.) Witchhunters might be more a political tool than true defenders against Chaos.

Sometimes you might see a noble being too harsh on wizards. When that happens, wizards will avoid his territory, and may be more willing to help his adversaries, putting him at a disadvantage in his political machinations.

Of course wizards can't get away with everything. They know very well that a lot of people are wary of them, and some in the clergy wouldn't mind being rid of them. So it's important to be discrete, don't draw unnecessary attention to yourself, and remind people of the usefulness of wizards, rather the dangers of the dark forces they're toying with. This also means that renegade wizards are not just a danger to themselves, but also draw anwanted attention to wizards in general. It may be in the interest of wizards' guilds to silence him before he draws the attention of witchhunters.

I think this would allow for a much more fluid and dynamic interaction between wizards, witchhunters, nobility and towns than the more straight forward "wizards serve the Empire" of more recent canon.

Mal Reynolds said:

In our WHFRP game, I play a Witch Hunter while another player plays a Bright Wizard. They actually teamed up very naturally as they complete each others very well. As my character use to say : "I am Sigmar's arm and you're the sword He wields." It makes a very powerfull team against any chaos creatures and cultists... and it keeps him (the wizard) under watchfull eyes, should he slips to chaos.

Silverwave said:

It is a great team. There are Witch Hunters that are more open minded, or at least I like to imagine that. I love to get in many sides of a story. I've GMed 2 2e games, one in which the veteran NPC who got the group together was an old Celestial Wizard and a peculiar Witch Hunter, who was very active, one of the greatest decetives of the Empire, but excluded from political positions inside his order because of his open-mindness. The two of them were wanting to train young competent people as a group capable of investigating Chaos outside institutional regulation.

In the other campaign, I had A LOT OF FUN sending the PCs to a small village that was held tight by a Witch Hunter and three helpers who were investigating a case of possibly possessed children. The village's Priestess had escaped to the woods with the children to protect them (she was a Rhya's Priestess, but the villagers painted her as Shallya's to protect her), and the WH was holding her brother arrested, while interrogating the common folk.

This WH was absolutely MAD with power. He has no limit, no stopping in his disposition to track Chaos.

One of the PCs almost died in the fire because he first questioned the Witch Hunter's authority (and got beated for that) and then, in an act of fury (his player is just what a GM needs when there is no adventure, if you know what I mean), he almost said that, if He was followed by such as the WH, he renegated Sigmar. I made he spend a Fate Point to fall unconscious before that happened, though.

So, there are a lot of different Witch Hunters. There are even those obsessed in getting the corrupted among their ranks.

One thing that I don't find so great about 3e is that the Witch Hunter career has a Insanity. I imagine most does, but I think some don't. Not that it wouldn't be difficult to just get that insanity of special characters, but I'm talking about how the system translates the world.

At last, in 2e they talked about some Wizard - Priest integration, among Verena Priests and Celestial Wizards, if I'm not mistaken. So, yes, Wizards make great teams, when they find bold (or crazy) enough people.

Pedro Lunaris said:

Not totally true. You can complete the Zealot career without ever buying/getting any insanities. You can also cure those you've get.