Would appreciate if someone could help me clarify this. Fury of the Stag allows one to take control of an opponent's character to the end of the phase. My questions are:

1. What happens to the attachments on the character? Do they stick with the transferred character? If so, I assume passive effects remain. How about triggered effects on the attachments? Can they be triggered by the new controller/old controller?

2. An actual example. My opponent wins a power challenge in which I use The Red Viper to defend. He chooses to take control of TRV with a Venomous Blade and Taste for Blood attached. What happens to Blade? Can it be returned to shadows? (if so, on whose side?) Can I still trigger Taste for Blood even though TRV is controlled by my opponent? (I guess I won't want to give my opponent the extra power in view of a possible rush but nonetheless for clarification purposes.)

Thanks!

sjchua said:

"(3.25) Taking Control of a Card With Attachments
Any time control of a card switches via a card
effect during a game, the new controlling player
gains control of said card and all duplicates.
Unless specified in game text, the new controlling
player does not gain control of any attachments
on said character."

So you would gain control of the character but not the attachments. Note that this does not discard any attachments (unless an attachment restriction like "attach to an opponent's character" becomes invalid). Attachments that modify the character therefore continue to go so.

But as with anything, you cannot trigger the effect of a card you do not control.

sjchua said:

The attachments are not discarded and their effects can be triggered by their controller if they so choose. You could trigger the Response on Venomous Blade to return it to Shadows (and, as with everything, when a card is removed from play, it goes to its owners respective out-of-play area; same principle as when the Viper dies while under your opponent's control he goes to your dead pile). You could also trigger Taste for Blood to continue loading the Viper with power - which might actually be a good idea if your opponent isn't too near to winning since you'll get the Viper back at the end of the phase. The point is, your opponent cannot trigger these effects because he does not control the attachments. You can trigger them, though - if their play restrictions and costs can be met.

ktom said:

Venomous Blade is discarded, because of "attach it to a character you control".

Is it? Sounds like a restriction for when it comes into play. I can never quite get the difference set in my head between a play restriction and a continuous checking requirement when it comes to attachments.

dormouse said:

(3.20) Attachment Restrictions
Any attachment that has a restriction (such as
"Lord or Lady only" or "attach to an opponent's
character") is immediately discarded
from play at any time that restriction is not
met, regardless of immunity. Such restrictions
are constant effects, and the attachment should
be immediately discarded any time a restriction
is not met.

They're all continuous checking requirements when it comes to what is written on attachment cards. The only possible time a restriction is not a continuous checking attachment restriction is when a triggered effect is involved in putting the attachment into play. In those cases (the "attach to a Lannister character" of I'm You Writ Small, for example), the play restriction of the triggered effect is sometimes mistaken for a continuous attachment restriction.

~ Week 1 at the new job involves memorizing the FAQ, right?

Venemous blade bounces back into shadows as soon he lost the challange. That's what makes it so awesome.

Mat_Not_Barlow said:

Not in this case.

Fury of the Stag's "take control" effect is resolved as a passive effect. If the Baratheon player takes control of the character with the Blade, the Blade becomes illegal and is discarded before the Martell player can trigger the Response that would send it back to Shadows. The Baratheon player essentially beats the Martell player to the punch and the Blade is lost.

It's pretty much the same timing as when a character with the Blade is killed for claim, the Blade is discarded because the character died before the Martell player can trigger the Response that sends it back to Shadows.

but can't we kneel the character that we're killing for claim to play a lannister pays his debts? isn't it the same timing here with the venomous blade? why can't we return it to shadows if we kill for claim the character wielding it?

Because if you kill the bearer, Venomous Blade becomes moribund and will end up in the discard pile. A card that has entered the moribund state cannot leave play a second time for any other reason.

eloooooooi said:

Said more generally, a card that has been killed, discarded, returned to Shadows or otherwise removed from play cannot be killed, discarded, returned to Shadows or otherwise removed from play a second time. You can use the character killed for claim to play ALPHD "on the way out" because kneeling it does not try to remove it from play. You cannot return a Venomous Blade that has been discarded to Shadows "on the way out" because once it is "on the way out," you cannot send it "out" a second time.

understood, thanks!

i was thinking that only characters would enter moribund state (and so couldn't be removed from play with other effects), not other types of cards.

Kissing_Crimson said:

All cards that start in play and end out of play go through a moribund state. Even events have their own moribund state between being played and going to the discard pile.