What happens when the ambush location where the gemstone dragon is supposed to appear is blocked by an impassable obstacle(rubble, etc) or the Shadow Soul familiar? The quest description states that "any heroes in those spaces are moved to the nearest empty spaces(overlord's choice)". So what about movement-blocking obstacles like the aforementioned?

We've stopped the game and can't seem to come to an agreement about the dragon's placement. Can anyone help?

As far as Shadow Soul goes, I would treat him as a hero figure for this purpose only. I think it's clear the intent of the rule about moving heroes was that anything blocking the dragon's placement needs to get out of those spaces. As far as rubble or other blocking terrain, how did it get there in the first place? I'm assuming a crushing block trap or the like. My gut reaction would be to remove the rubble completely, and then slap the OL upside the head for putting it there in the first place. =P

Considering that the only way blocking terrain could be in the area the dragon is occupying is by the OL playing a trap, and the OL should know **** well where the dragon will be showing up, it's really his own fault for letting that happen. Losing the offending obstacle to make room for the dragon seems a suitable penalty to me. The other option would be to move the dragon to the closest legal position and oust any heroes in those spaces.

Yea, I figured as much. Thanks. My brother wanted to see this in writing before we continued. He still thought I cheated for treating the Shadow Soul familiar as a hero in this case, since its most valuable function is blockiing the way for the Ol's critters.The Shadow Soul is such a nuisance. ):

How does the Shadow Soul block critters? Thought the only restriction was that you couldn't end on the Shadow Soul's space anymore than it could end on that of another figure?

Quick look at my ref. sheets shows it doesn't block movement or line of sight, just the restriction about not sharing space with another figure.

I've found it somewhere in the FAQ.

The Shadow Soul doesn't block movement. Other figures can freely move through it, as long as they don't end in the same space:

The Shadow Soul cannot end its movement in the same space as another figure, nor can figures end their movement in the same space as the Shadow Soul.

zealot12 said:

You're probably thinking of this one:

Q: Shadow Soul can be used to block an Ogre from attacking if it is placed two spaces ahead from a hero in a corridor as he has insufficient speed to reach a hero, attack, and withdraw from the space held by Shadow Soul. Is this intentional?
A: Yes.

However, this actually conflicts with another FAQ ruling, so you'll have to make up your own mind.

Q:Can a figure enter a square where it cannot normally end its movement if there is a chance (but not a certainty) that it will be unable to leave?
A: Yes.

Yep, that's the entry I've been thinking of. Gonna stick to that rule, since we've played like that from the beginning.

I would be careful letting an unknown ruling let your game come crashing down.

This game has tons of tiny rules that are easy to forget.

Not everything works the same in every instance.

I think the best course of action when something like this comes up is to spend 5-10 minutes looking for it in the rule books at most.

If you can not find the answer, simply come up with the best, most fair solution between heroes/overlord at the time.

Finish your session using that ruling, and then in your spare time, research for the correct answer and solve the problem for next time.

DavidG55311 said:

Use word-searchable pdfs.

zealot12 said:

For future reference, the arguement I would use against the demand to see this in writing would be that the dragon is using special quest-specific rules for its placement. Quest-specific rules always override the rulebook. That still doesn't explicitly mention Shadow Soul, but the point is that the general rules are bent to accommodate the quest rules. I would also be willing to show him the quest rules about the dragon placement (after using tiles or sheets of paper to block off everything else he doesn't need to read.)

mahkra said:

I don't see a contradiction here. The important part of the second question is the line "a chance ( but not a certainty ) that it will be unable to leave." In other words, it's possible that the figure will be able to get to a legal end point, and it's possible it won't. In the first question, they specifcially say the ogre is unable (ie: no chance) to reach a legal end position after moving in for the attack. If the Ogre had a Charge card that gave it enough MP to complete the attack and get out, it would be allowed to do so, the limiting factor there is that it cannot escape (an assumption made as part of the question.)

Of course, if you want to play that to the letter then you'd have to calculate the ogre's max damage and determine if there's a chance it could kill the hero it wants to attack, because - depending on what's in the spaces around the target hero - that might open up a space for the ogre to end in and therefore qualify as "a chance" to end legally. Oh Descent Rules, how thee dost vex me. =)

Steve-O said:

No need. Ogres have Knockback, which means that unless the hero has Unstoppable, the Ogre needs merely to not-miss to move the hero and make space. As long as the Ogre has 1MP left after attacking and there is not another obstacle (hero, or impassable terrain) then the ogre can still attack. Note that the restriction is only that if ogre cannot move off the shadow soul.

This is why questions should go through some sort of process here, because this is a badly worded question that misses some fundamental aspects of the particulars and ends up with a misleading answer.
If the ogre can't forseeably get off, then it is illegal. If the ogre has a reasonable chance of getting off, then it is not. In this case, the ogre has a very good chance of getting off, but the questioner didn't think of that - and FFG staff aren't noted for thoughtful answers. It is the responsibility of the question to be fair.

Corbon said:

Good point, I had forgotten about them having knockback. Considering the main point of the question was a large creature who could not attack and then retreat, I would be inclined to assume there's rubble beside the hero, or mentally substitute some other large creature. The fact that the ogre has no possibility of a legal end position is part of the question, construct your mental map set up appropriately.

I agree the question needs to be fair, but I also think the point of this question is pretty clear, minor quibbles aside.