Amani said:

Yes to all of your questions. First I don`t have an agenda to exclude women from the rpg game industry, as I said before I am fine with women playing wfrp. But they will have no access to our gaming circle*. Simple as that. Be baffled all you want, but I am alone with these opinions. Beside why worry yourself with what one gaming circle does or do not?

*definiton of gaming circle: a dozen of people, friends that meets regulary to play rpgs, internet or lan gaming, or boardgames. We currently play at an old industry complex that have been redone into offices. even if all show up at the same time, we have 1500 feet squares for above mentioned activites. its like our own private con. it can get scary at night, as it used to be a fish processing plant, rumours of an fisherman butcher that haunts the unlit corridors, are quite persistent. Doors that slams, and strange smells of guted fish sometimes appear as an unpleasant whiff, just to evaporate the next second, are all evidence of unatural phenomena (not really). We think we should find a name for the fisherman, any suggestions?

Mal have you actually ever played with a female? Not a conbait teenybobber(regardless of age), but an actual grownup.

Also from my stand point, if you exclude someone from an activity based on gender, colour, religious conviction ect. Then your... Well you see where I'm going

I'm lucky enough to have a group that is half female, we have a fantastic dynamic, it has nothing to do with the fact that there are a few girls there. Their genders make no difference they are just cool people.

And finally, what happens if say your game masters new girlfriend suddenly wants to join and he brings her along cus lets face it saying no might be more trouble than its worth. Would you walk out on the game? As you grow older this is more or less bound to happen that someone in your groups significant other of the opposite gender will want to try it out, if for no other reason to figure out why the spouse spends so much time on things like this. Your reaction I bet will be "i'm old enough" or "that will never happen my mates feel the same way" and then you will in a few years found out that your wrong.

yeah I have played with women on many an occasion, but that was when I tended CONs. (which I don`t do anymore). Since I am the Head gamemaster, we usually run my games. And the policy isn`t that strictly enforced. On a occasion past girlfriends have attended. But they have never become apart of the group.
I have between 5 and 6 regular players (all males), and between 3 and 4 non regular players (all male). And this have been pretty consistent for the last 7-8 years. So I don`t have the urge to get new players (males or female alike), since everytime I have to start a new campaign, I will have to exclude some players anyway. thats tough decision, to say sorry mate, you didn`t make it into my campaign.
Luckily we have another GM that run other games, but he is of the same opinion. And I don`t see in any near future that my friends` spouses and girlfriends will take a sudden interests in our nerd hobby. And I can`t in my wildest dreams concieve the idea of a girl that will suddenly materialize saying, "scuse me, can I play rpg with you guys?"

But If it so happened (if it snows in...), we have to say no, sorry our group is full, please find yourself another group. and anytime I select players for a new campaign, I go after senority. And since there is no women in my group of selectives, any "new woman" will be ruled out by senority. So maybe I should have called it the senority rule?

Back on the topic: I don`t think that this is a issue for FFG at all. its an imaginery problem.

First of all, I want to say that I have utmost respect for women, female gamers, and the person who posted the following. I propose that we all take a step down from our soapboxes and think about the conversation being had in this thread. Without any further ado, let's all enjoy the misspelling of "Rogue Trader" as presented below:

youper said:

No offense meant to Youper!

Wow - I'm not a regular poster but what an interesting thread!!

As a long time female gamer - rpgs and minis - I have met plenty of geeky guys in my time - normally all rather shy and awkward around women and usually feeling all fingers and thumbs when trying to coherently string a conversation together with someone of the oppostite sex that actaully exists in real life as opposed to the worlds more safely inhabited with dice and imagination. So I can see why some same sex groups might exist - safety in numbers lads!!

It is a bit sad really!!

However I have met lots of guys really keen for girls to mix in their games and visa versa - I manage a group of guys for work so playing the role of GM is often easier for me than being directed.

Keep up the great discussion - delighted that true geeks still exist as it gives us all something to look at - I suspect long black leather coats and long hair is also a requirement

In all seriousness all hobbies have their fringe followers - same with RPG - but there are also plenty of level headed open minded people that enjoy mixed groups and can appreciate the dynamics such a mixed group can offer.

Long(ish) leather coat, check. Haven't had long hair for ages, but faded metal band t-shirts are a must.

Fleabane said:

Yeah real geeks can be funny.... I`ve met a few of them at CONs wearing ridiculous black trench coats, having the conspicious Matrix looks.

...So enjoying non mixed groups make some people narrow minded (as opposed to open minded)? hmm interesting. well, well (resignated). Its all to easy to jump to the wrong conclusions. Some even feigning appalled to justify mockery

One poster (think it was LordPasty) who said taking a step down from our soapboxes. Which I agree must the most intelligent thing to be said in a while on this thread.

Rouge Trader . Now that would be FFG going too far in pleasing female gamers, wouldn`t you think?

In my corner

Do you ever get the feeling of “painting yourself into a corner”, well I do, right now. I know I have said some unpopular things that began rather harmlessly. But like most people I also respond rather poorly to mockery and ridicule, it sometimes provoke me, and that is often the intention of such mob behavior.

So should I retract my words? Saying that we intend to remove said “no-women policy”? Nah! Because that would be misunderstanding the intention of what I wrote earlier, In any case many of you have misunderstood it already, and a few I suspect have done so deliberately. I firmly stand behind every word I`ve said.

Now is it so horrible and shocking to conceive the idea that something is preferred to be done without the opposite gender? Like a bunch of buddies going to camp for the weekend without their spouses? Or women having a get-together without their husbands?

We prefer to play our role-playing games without women attending. I think that is a rather harmless preference. None of my friends are really married, but 4 of them are engaged (having fiancés). None of them show any interest in what we do, and are fine with the idea of us playing our games away from them 2-3 times a month.
I think what really upset some of the forumites was the word “no-women policy”. I have to explain how it works in reality. It means that none of my regular players will work actively to invite women to attend to our games or actively try letting them join our gaming circle. Now that is obviously for a group that don`t want women in their group, you don`t go arround asking women to attend with such a policy. That’s how it works

To this date almost no woman or female that have asked to join, either girlfriends or colleagues, have been rejected. Most have attended a few games as guest-players. Some didn`t get it, and some got crazy about it and wanted to play it every week and even invite other female friends to take part (of course that couldn`t last I had my own regular gaming circle, and seniority policy to take into consideration).

While my gaming circle have been more or less consistent for the last few years, some friends have come and gone, the inner circle of 4 have remained mostly unchanged for 16 years! I have played with other groups as well but I always returned to the 4 that I started to play rpg with. My dearest friends, for 16 new years with our policy and gaming!

Mal Reynolds said:

Sadly I think you rather prove that point Mal - as there is a distinct difference between enjoying non mixed groups and having a "policy" of no women. That by definition prevents open mindedness and may well cause people to jump to wrong conclusions - so apologies if I have.

Feigning appalled in order to mock - nah - I've never needed an excuse before

Mal - just read you latest post re policy vs prefer - that is a harmless preference - your corner makes more sense now

Mal Reynolds said:

Rouge Trader . Now that would be FFG going too far in pleasing female gamers, wouldn`t you think?

There's a Rogue Trader plot in there, in which the cargo turns out to be makeup with strange side effects.

Mal,

I don't think people are upset, or ridicule you for NOT having women in your RPG group. 16 years is a long time, and sounds like you guys enjoy gaming together and have a lot of fun.

What upset people is that you stated that FFG and other companies should NOT encourage women gamers, and that its perfectly natural to drop a game (and the entire system) and have no interest in it if they change a pronoun, or have a female picture.

The two are very different. Hope that helps clear things up.

shinma said:

Ah, I understand. and yes FFG should NOT encourage women gamers, They should encourage GAMERS to play their games. They should not make any distinction between genders when marketing their game. That`s equality for me. SO yeah if FFG make it "too woman friendly" I will WFRP. Simple as that...

Mal Reynolds said:

Also note that while I agree with this statement, there is a big difference between gender theory and feminism and that the game from a marketing perspective could benefit from a lot of gender theory. Not because it wold make the game more feminine, but because it would increase everyones ability to interface with it.

I don't struggle to attract women in my WFRP3 games... : playing a male dwarf troll slayer, a female high elf envoy, a female reiklander rural patroler.

An other girl played too, a male reiklander apprentice grey wizard.