Just to clarify TRV's immunity to events with regards to Game of Cyvasse. Can one...

1. choose and kneel TRV to 'compete in the game'?

2. choose an opponent's TRV to be returned to hand if he knelt the character with the highest STR?

No to both.

Immunity prevents cards from being chosen as targets by the things they are immune to. Therefore, the Viper's immunity makes him an invalid choice for any part of Cyvasse's effect.

If an event card said "kneel a character to (do something)...", then you could choose the Viper because the kneeling is a cost rather than an effect.

Sorry to reup this thread but I don't know If I haven't understood well the question/the reply/or the rules :-)

I read also all the other Game fo Cyvasse thread related to "kneel a knelt" char (and i have to admit I have difficulties to absorb that rule)

Anyway my question is about Red Viper "immune events" and Game of Cyvasse.

Before reading this thread I was thinking Red Viper could be chosen both for "kneel a char" and "return in hand" part of the Cyvasse event.

Reading this thread seems that for neither part of the event card can be used Red Viper... I don't know who/where/when I have read that Cyvasse target the player and not the card so Red Viper immunity were overrided by game of Cyvasse...

could you please help me understanding well this card???

thx

Game of Cyvasse doesn't target players. At least not in the traditional sense of what is actually chosen to be affected by the event. Regardless of what it does to the players in the game, it still effects and targets (the word "choose" denotes a target) characters. The Red Viper is "Immune to events." The FAQ tells us this specifically means "When an event card resolves, the effect cannot be applied to a card that is immune to events."

The only cost of playing a Game of Cyvasse is playing the card. There is no "Do X to do Y." If there are no cancels, the event resolves. What is written after "Challenges:" is all considered to be the effects of the event. The effects of an event can't be applied to the a card that is immune to events. This is why The Red Viper cannot be chosen to kneel or be returned back his owner's hand. If he was, then he'd be affected by the event, but this would be illegal due to his immunity.

Ok, not to put aside your question Gualdo (if anyone else has anything to add or correct, please do so), but I can't seem to resolve how A Game of Cyvasse can be played if one player doesn't have any characters with an intrigue icon. The FAQ tells us, "The target identifies what card or cards the event's effect is applied to. The word choose is always used to denote a target. If an event does not have the word 'choose,' then it does not have a target....If you do not have a valid target for an event, you may not play that event. Not all events have a target."

Based on this, it seems like I wouldn't be able to play A Game of Cyvasse if there is at least one player that does not control any characters with an intrigue icon (i.e. someone running a Siege of Winterfell deck). Am I looking at this correctly? If not, what am I missing.

I think you missed the "if able" in the card text of Game of Cyvasse, which contradicts the rule from the FAQ that you quoted.

This event does not need to have valid target to be played.

If both player do not have a char with INT icon, you can still play your event (say, you evilly plan to play Rule by Decree later), you can still play this event even if no character will be returned to its owner's hand.

Yeah, I should read card text more closely

Thanks.

Re-up of the thread for another "immune to events" question:

if my opponent has a dupe on red viper. I win military challenge and he choose red viper as claim. He use dupe to save Viper. Can I use He calls it thinking to cancel the Response?

Since HE CALLS doesn't target directly the Red Viper I think yes but maybe i'm wrong.

thx

Gualdo said:

Gualdo said:

Using a duplicate to save a character from
being killed or discarded is considered to be
a gained triggered "Response:" action.

ktom said:

Huh? Then you could use Ellaria Sand's ability on The Red Viper? Could you explain that more thoroughly, please??

Rogue30 said:

eloooooooi said:

So unlike what I just said about abilities - where the character ability is considered to be inseparable from the character itself, so the immunity of the character protects the ability as well - power and the character it is on would be considered separate things and the immunity of the character would NOT protect the power on it.

ktom said:

Not only historically, since it is in FAQ. (there is nothing about power counters however, so asking Nate about power is still good idea).

Yeah, it would be good if Nate added an official clarification to the FAQ. I suppose gold on characters works the same way then.

Thanks ktom.

eloooooooi said:

Yes, an FAQ entry would be nice because power on a character was considered inseparable from the character itself (and protected by immunity) pretty much from the time immunity was introduced, so to me, Nate's ruling at Gencon represents a reversal of past rulings/guidelines.

Thx for the replies. It makes sense in my opinion that ellaria can not steal power on red viper and I cannot kill red viper canceling its dupe response. Let's hope for a faq before Staleck Europeans.

Gualdo said:

I re-read all and with difficulty I can understand all points.

...with difficulty :-)

ok you can not stop a duplicate on the viper but let say he got Bodyguard on him can you use Eddard Stark with Response: Cancel a triggered effect that chooses a N character as the only target. Then, draw a card. (Limit once per phase.) to cancel it?

King Blith said:

You could cancel the Bodyguard on The Viper with something like He Calls it Thinking or To Be a Kraken, though.

ktom said:

Hi

I was reading the FAQ, 3.19 Scope of Immunity:

"Immunity only protects a card itself. Peripheral entities attached to or associated with a card, such as attachments, duplicates, power counters, gold tokens on the immune card, and also including triggered effects originating from the immune card, can still be affected by cards of the type to which that card is immune, as long as the affecting cards do not target the immune card"

I don't know if I understand this correctly. Can a "He call it thinking" cancel the gained response (discard a dupe)???

Thanks.

I was talking about the red viper, of course.

acrida said:

Yes. This discussion is from september 2010. Scope of immunity was clarified (added) in FAQ in october 2010.

ok, thank you

ktom said:

So it means that immunity on Joffrey KL doesn't prevent power on him to be "stolen" by Ellaria and Lion's gates for example?