Quick question for y'all. What age group is WFRP geared towards? What would be the minimum appropriate age for most scenarios? (PG-13?) Any thoughts on younger audiences (e.g. 8 year olds)?

Jay H

My son (10) plays with us regularly. He does really well, and can get into character just as well as the adults. Some subject matter is kept away from our games, but it probably wouldn't see much influence regardless of his presence.

The biggest trick is to get him to understand when it's time to focus on the game and when it's time to have a laugh, but that's getting better.

Emirikol said:

It's definitely aimed at 39 year olds.

heptat said:

Huh... I would have said it's aimed at 46 year olds.

That said, I think WFRP dabbles in some grim material. You don't *have* to present that stuff when you're running for kids though GMing is all about tailoring your story to your audience (IMHO/YMMV). I would have no trouble introducing an 8 year old to the system, although I probably wouldn't be dumping deadly diseases or mutations on them just yet. Certainly no cultists of Slaanesh.

It's aimed at 38 year olds that apparently like to roam the forums and get picked apart by people that have differing opinions than himself.

Its not for 43 years old. Maybe I would have liked it in the 90ties when those cheesy storytelling games like Vampire were hot.

If you are exploring the "full" range of the game then I don't really feel that its appropriate for kids, the chaos gods can be a little hefty, but yer 15 or 16 ish would be ok all depending on the youngster.

UncleArkie said:

I have the same opinion but tell this games workshop managers, where its standard that the kids from 8y upwards are participating in painting workshops.

Kids nowadays are lucky. They get to paint plastic. The lead we had made me insane!!!

"Aimed at 39 year olds."

CRAP! I'm too young again!

Jay

Emirikol said:

Nah, thay are all too old

And they are wrong too, this system is aimed at 32 year olds

As to the kids... well I started playing it (1-st edition) when I was 13-14, or so (my memory fails me), but it wasn't playing to the full extend.

Fortunately I don't have kids (and I don't plan any... EVER... unless we're talking about eating them ) so I can not tell, how 3-rd edition fits in "kid" age group.

I have 2 kids, 10 year old girl, and 8 year old boy. They have been bugging me to get away from board games and try a real roleplaying game. I gave them several options (including Grim) and they chose WFRP without hesitation.

We've played three games now. They grasped the dice pool mechanic immediately. They build their own pools, cancel their own dice, and report to me the results.

They roleplay more than my regular group. My son actually walked around the table to mime handing an item to his sister. The other night, as he was charging into combat against some zombies, he raised his imaginary hammer over his head and shouted, "SIGFAR GUIDE MY HAND!". I was torn between laughing at 'Sigfar' and being very proud. I chose being proud

We have a great time. they bug me constantly to continue the campaign.

And how are you going to explain a keeper of secrets or a witch elf to them?

UncleArkie said:

Patiently, after a long wait. Kids do eventually grow up. My son, after watching our games for much of his young life, is now a stalwart member of our gaming group. He's 17 and, aside from a blush or two over the years he's had no trouble slowly assimilating the Old World.

I'm actually planning on running a game for my 9-year-old nephew sometime this holliday season, possibly including my 17-year-old nephew (with whom I've gamed a few times).. if they're interested. The younger one is into imaginative play, but I wonder if the 'restrictive' nature of the the rules would get in his way. He's already adept at a few CCG, so I expect the action cards and bits will be pretty intuitive for him. (Although for my sanity I might make pre-generated characters.)

My son was 10 when he started playtesting WFRP. He was the member of our group who caught on the quickest to making pools and reading the dice, etc. Although his playtest comments were mostly along the lines of 'Wood Elves Rock!!.'

UncleArkie said:

"They're bad, bad people. You probably want to attack them first."

There's really no reason to tell them that the crazed Elf they see running at them routinely bathe in blood. It's unnecessary.

For me, it's not the content that's the problem for younger audiencesit's the nuance. Most children aren't developmentally ready to think deeply in shades of gray until their late teens; it's just not in their wiring. What I love most about Warhammer is the fact that almost everything is a shade of gray. There are few (if any) good answers, and the "best" you can do is to figure out which is the least of all of the available evils. Many of my favorite gameplay sessions have consisted of debate about the issues rather than action. Those aren't likely to be sessions that kids just love!

Of course, you can gear any game and any setting towards kids, but if I were an adult showing up for a Warhammer group and saw kids there, I'd be disappointed because I'd assume we weren't going to explore the most intellectually complicated and interesting aspects of the game. I wouldn't necessarily be that disappointed to see kids with other systems because I don't think most other systems invite the same kind of intellectual work.

(Of course, I'd probably also walk away from a game with kids because the last thing I want to worry about when RPing is watching my language. )

In short, can you do it? Yes. Are there other systems that are better for the way kids think? Undoubtedly. Does it matter, though, if you and your family are happy with what and how you're playing? Nope.

The game as it is on the core rules, are really suited for 13+ I'd say. If you're playing with a son/daughter, then you can go further down as you're able to explain stuff afterwards. May sound weird, and some will argue that 8 year olds are playing more violent computer games than any GM would be able to whip up in WFR, but I would not do it none the less.

That's the core rules... after that comes the setting, and if I were to play Warhamme like I think it's surposed to be played, and how I play it, I would change the limit to 18+. Simply because I don't think they'd be able to actually roleplay some scenes, like sexual oriented content etc... For example I have a group with 4 players, all males (as are their chars). One of the chars has slowly fallen in love with the other char (who's playing like he has no clue, gives room for some VERY funny scenes ), and this is something some 30+ can't even handle. Guess it helps that all of us are married, but it's still stuff that can be hard to handle.

Spivo said:

I'd say this is true for any game though.

One thing I wonder about though, in my years of gaming across several groups, I've never heard of anyone bringing any sexual or romantic content into games. I just really don't see the reason for including it at all regardless of age, group composition, or what-have-you. In addition, I don't see any situation where it would be appropriate to include; even if you have two characters that could conceivably be romantically linked, I don't see why it would enter into the game at all.

Different game types for everyone I suppose, but I don't see it as being an argument for the setting lending itself to one age bracket or another.

Llanwyre's point does hold water with me, however. In our games at least, my 10-year-old has no issues with the shades of grey. The system is so open ended that there really isn't ever a situation in which you can't make a moral decision, at least from your own character's standpoint. If you do get into a situation where you are forced to abandon morals for the sake of the story, I'd say the rails are getting a bit too restrictive.

The best bit about it though has been how he's grasped the concept that the morals of a Dwarf don't necessarily have anything in common with the morals of an average Reiklander.

Having spent the majority of my life enthralled in the Old World and being a GM since WHFRP 1st ed as well as one of those terrible Games Workshop staffers who taught the painting classes to the 8 year olds for a few years, I would say that the game mechanics could easily be picked up by someone as young as 10 or 12 if thier bright kids who have the patience to play a role-playing game but there would need to be some fairly conscieous editing in regards to the setting and how it was presented. In all honesty the setting itself has seen a fair bit of "watering down" so to speak in regards to the art and how ambigious the more disturbing nature of the Old World has been portrayed since the early 80's when the audience was generally college aged folks and up, but even now the core themes and dark fantasy feel is prevelant in the setting and I would simply take some caution in how thats presented to younger kids. I think it is very possible to present the Old World in a pg-13 way by avoiding certain aspects of the setting like corruption, insanity, daemonic possession, gross intolerance, etc. What you will end up with is a pretty sparse representation of the setting but a game thats still a good bit of fun for the younger audience who frankly dont know what's being ommited.

In regards to what age group I think the game is ideally suited for, I would have to say the setting is still very much geared toward the more mature audience who can handle the fairly heavy and often disturbing themes, as well as the black comedy that make the dark fantasy of the Old World so memorable and great.

I believe the settings of certain games need to be watered down by the GM's when kids are involved. Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Warhammerfantasy all come to mind. These settings are very adult settings with shades of gray. The powers of chaos are pervasive in the setting and it's hard to get around that when presenting the game to kids.

For kids, I'd recommend D&D or Pathfinder. Both systems present a set of rules with "default" settings that are pretty open to campaign costruction to the needs of the group.

When I play in a Warhammer setting (Fantasy or 40k) my goal is to experience the FULL setting. Generally, I'm going to play something else with my kids instead of Warhammer Fantasy or 40k RPGs.

If your kids can handle it, that's fine, but my kids are restricted from RPGs and Video games with darker settings. My son wants to play Dragon Age, but I'm just not comfortable with him playing MA+ games yet. I kind of see Warhammer Fantasy and 40k fitting into that MA+ range. Pretty much, I think it's up to the parents to decide, but if you include kids in a Dark Fantasy or Sci-Fi setting it could kill the mood for the other gamers around the table if they feel they need to watch their language and wonder if where they take their characters to during the game is offensive or inappropriate for a minor to witness.

Well said sir, well said.

Emirikol said:

I think the answer to the original question is that WFRP's target audience is definitely young adult and up. My 4 year old sure as hell ain't playing it.

I wouldn't run it for kids, but that's just because I totally dig being able to run a fantasy RP with "mature" themes. On the other hand, I totally agree with what has been said. You certainly can tone it down & it sounds from the posts like there's a lot of kids out there that really like it, and that's good news for all fans of the game!

I suppose it's how you see the setting. Generally, the evil people are the enemies of the group; if you're playing a game with evil characters, then you certainly wouldn't include kids... however, I don't game with people who use curse words or want to ****, murder, pillage, or turn to chaos, kids present or not. It means that it's pretty easy for me to include kids, as the setting doesn't get watered down at all; you just play characters more on the good side of the spectrum and fight against the evil.

Is there anyone on this forum not over 30? I guess only 30-somethings play RPGs, while 20-somethings play Magic, and teenagers play WoW?

NezziR said:

Wow. I wish my group of tired old 30-somethings played like that. We take it at the same time too seriously, and are unwilling to really commit to the immersion. Now I'm depressed.

At least there still is a new generation on its way. I can't wait until my son is old enough. (I keep telling my wife that we should have 4 kids so we'll have a full-size RPG group, but somehow that argument doesn't work very well for her.)