Wytefang's Post-GenCon World Championships Report - 9th place Finish.

By Wytefang, in Warhammer: Invasion The Card Game

Well I’m finally getting around to posting this huge post-GenCon report and not a moment too soon – I’ve been jaw-jacking about getting it done for a few days now but have just been super busy since getting home. Yeah, I know what they say about excuses. :P

Okay, a few disclaimers first:

1. Just like all of us here, I have my own opinions on what’s right and/or wrong with W:I’s current “meta.” While they may either sound foolish or genius depending on your perspective, they are, such as they are, my own opinions and I certainly don’t consider them to be perfect, flavored as they are by my subjective thoughts and past experiences. Having not played any of the (reputedly) most challenging CCGs out there in any kind of professional capacity, I like to think that I can at least bring a somewhat different and potentially refreshing perspective to the table, if nothing else.

2. With any complaints or concerns I post, about anything, I’m always aware that nothing is perfect and that you can’t please everyone all of the time. I’m simply commenting positively or negatively on what I experienced in the hopes that FFG can get some good feedback AND that my fellow W:I gamers can either learn something from my experiences (successes or failures) or at the least, know that another gamer may feel the same way that they did about a variety of issues. If I don’t match your particular perspective, please know that it’s nothing personal and that just because I see things a certain way, certainly doesn’t mean you have to see it the same way or that I think my opinions are the only right ones.

3. Finally, this will be an INSANELY LONG post, please bear with me. If you make it to the end, I will give you a cookie.

Whew. With some of the recent grumblings around these forums, I figured it might be best to clarify that stuff first. Moving on…

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Like many of us here in these forums, I’ve been excited about the GenCon World Championships since I got this awesome game right after GenCon 09 (a kind friend nabbed a copy for me while at the Con). I’ve mellowed a bit since getting older so I wasn’t that bound and determined that I had to do really well but at the same time, I felt that I had as good of a grasp as anyone else on the game and should probably have a decent chance to at least make the final 8, which was my stated goal before the tournament began.

I had a disappointing finish in the FFG Regionals, falling prey to a lack of playtesting time, last-minute fiddly deck changes, and finally, a lack of recent tourney experience, which led to a few unnecessarily nervous mistakes. I came in the middle of the pack, finishing 6th or 7th out of 12 in that one. Ugh. So I’d hoped to mitigate nearly all of those issues for this big event and to some extent, I did.

I came down to the Con with two gaming buddies, one of whom has been on the same year-long Warhammer: Invasion love-fest along with me, enjoying the twists and turns of this great game as it developed all the way up until the Con (that would be my pal, Konrad). He’s generally been a craftier deck-builder than I, frequently surprising me with the quality of the synergies his decks have contained. My other buddy was Gio – he’d never played W:I before until our arrival Wednesday evening at GenCon but he has always been pretty good at games in general and is a fairly fast learner. We haven’t played much with Gio in the past year due to a new job situation with bad hours so it was nice to see him again. Gio was determined to play in the tourney with us rather than sit around on Saturday watching us have fun so we dutifully dug in to get him up to speed.

KonradandGio.jpg

KONRAD AND GIO PRACTICING ON THURSDAY NIGHT.

Unfortunately, as an unexpected by-product of our tutelage, I ended up missing out on a ton of playtesting and playing time, while at the Con, which may have cost me a tiny bit in the tourney, in hindsight, but it was worth it to get another gamer interested in W:I.

Even up to the day before the Con, I was still unclear as to which deck I wanted to play. However, having heard so much hype over the Bolt-thrower deck, I did a bunch of new research on it and realized that I had just not really understood how people were playing it – once I realized how they were managing this deck, it hit me just how nasty it was. So that definitely flavored my thought-processes in the initial deck-decision phase of my GenCon WC planning.

Konrad and Gio did a ton of playing on Friday and I got to catch a few matches with some really cool people. Met a great guy named Corey (sp?) who played a league match with me and was going for an Empire mill deck achievement but my Dwarf deck notched an easy win since his mill deck as so unbalanced toward milling. He was a very good sport and clearly knew how to play CCGs. Tried to find some other people from the forums and had little luck (most people said they either lurked or just didn’t go there much) until I ran into Jon (ShubFan76). He’d brought his Bolt-Thrower deck and was going to be using it in the tourney. Since I needed the practice we played a match. I didn’t tell Jon but I brought out a crazy deck intended only and solely to destroy Support cards and Developments, figuring it should surely be the bane of a BT deck. It was destruction-based and used Grimgors, Pillages, Burn it Down, Smash ‘em Alls, the Orc units that you can sacrifice to kill Supports and/or Developments…to name a few. Well to my utter dismay, the BT deck just crushed it like nobody’s business. It didn’t hurt that Shub has played on the Magic Pro-Tour and won quite a bit of $$ playing on the Vs. circuit and the WoW:TCG circuits – the guy really, really knows his stuff. He’s also a super friendly player who is a very good sport whether crushing you or not. It was great to meet him and get some excellent advice and ideas from him during the weekend.

Having seen the awful devastation and cyclical recursion tricks that the BT can throw at a deck, I marveled at how anyone could expect to defeat it. This was particular galling to me because I’d frequently trumpeted here in the forums that it didn’t seem that bad to me (how wrong I was, apparently). After our match, I was super deflated and considered actually not even playing in the big dance but some other gamer nearby tossed some encouraging words my way, stating that it certainly wasn’t unbeatable and that picked me up some. I went back to our hotel room that night, on the eve of the World Championships, determined to at least NOT lose to a BT deck. Little did I know that I would achieve my goals in that regard.

Unfortunately, once we got back Konrad and Gio got into several more matches as Gio still felt he needed the practice. With only 3 of us there, I was the odd man out and just rested a bit and thought about what deck to use while they finished up their series. At that point, Konrad had decided to run with a Dark Elf/Chaos hybrid using a DE capital board. I wasn’t terribly confident in his choice but I know he’s a crafty player who could probably get more out of it than I could. Gio’s deck, a Dwarf deck, was in disarray (60+ cards in it) and he needed my help to build a better one before the tournament so I got to work and tore his deck to nothing and rebuilt it from the ground up. It was challenging for me because I was leaning towards playing Dwarves anyway and didn’t want our decks to be carbon-copies of each other. So I suddenly decided to have him run a sub-theme of Empire with a couple of Verenas, the 0-cost Peasant Militia for Loyalty symbols and to act as damage sponges against early Skaven/Orc rushes, and finally all 3 Free Companies for their scouting abilities. I figured that matching them up with the Dwarven scouts could help Gio against BT decks, potentially.

So having built his deck, I decided to tweak my Orc/Skaven deck one last time and my beloved Dwarf deck (I’ve loved the Dwarves as a deck for several battlepacks now, and not just because they were getting stronger each time, either). I decided to see how the Orc/Skaven would do against his Dwarf deck. It won 1 out of 5 matches, maybe 2 out of 5 (can’t totally recall) and I decided that it just wasn’t good enough for my tastes. Dwarf it would be – sadly that decision came at 3:30am the night before, so I was pretty tired and didn’t do any more tweaking. My deck was set. Here’s what I went with (with some comments afterwards for why I used what I did and what I’d change in retrospect):

WYTEFANG’S DWARVEN DECK O’ DOOM:

Units:

2x Longbeards
2x Troll-Slayers
3x Dwarf Ranger
3x Dwarf Cannon Crew
3x Slayers of Karak Kadrin
2x Grudgebearer
2x Defender of the Hold

TOTAL= 17 units

Supports:

3x Mining Tunnel
3x Ancestral Tomb
3x Contested Village
3x Warpstone Excavation
2x Great Book of Grudges
3x Dragon Mage Awakening

TOTAL= 17 Support

Tactics:

3x High Elf’s Disdain
2x Master Rune of Spite
3x Master Rune of Valaya
3x Demolition!
3x Innovation
2x Will of the Electors
1x Judgment of Verena

TOTAL= 17 Tactics

FINAL DECK SIZE: 51 cards

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My deck’s build was heavily flavored by a desire NOT to lose to the stupid BT deck, at the least, and to also have a strong shot at handling Orc/Skaven or Skaven/Anything, which I expected to see a fair amount of at the World Championships. To that effect, I included High Elf’s Disdain x3 at the last minute as well as Will of the Electors to move around the BT deck’s developments and just possibly disrupt it for a turn or two, to buy more time. I only used a single Judgment of Verena because it was going to be expensive and because I was also using 2x Rune of Spite.

Probably the oddest inclusion in my deck were the High Elf Support cards, Dragon Mage Awakening, which was a 0-cost, 1-loyalty support that adds +3 to a unit’s hit points. I wanted it in the deck for a few reasons: One, it usually worked as a decent protection against stupid Deathmasters because I’d begun to notice that most Deathmasters fire off without having all that many Skaven to tap into, so the extra +3 hit points would make it pretty tough for ol’ Sniktch to get an easy kill of an important unit. Secondly, it would give me more damage-soaking ability for a low-cost against Rush decks early on, Third, it would also be a bit of a deterrent against anyone splashing amounts of DE hit-point reduction in their decks, and finally, but most importantly to me, it provided me with a dual-purpose means of getting HE loyalty on the table so I could use my High Elf’s Disdain more easily. And I can say without reservation that it was absolutely worth including this odd little Support card – it came through for me many times during the tournament and seemed to constantly surprise my opponents, who almost always had to ask to read the card to find out what it did. The other risk I took was in only having 17 units AND in not running a Grudge-Thrower support to better tap into the Dwarf Ranger damage ability. I’d learned a while back that the Grudge-thrower wasn’t as necessary anymore due to the ability to simply use your own Slayers of Karak Kadrin to kill one of your own Attacking Units thus triggering the Rangers’ effect. It seemed more efficient and freed up some critical slots in my deck build so I’ve gone with it ever since. For the most part, it was the right choice though I probably could’ve used at least one GT in my deck, just to be safe, in hindsight.

Some mistakes made in my build were NOT including any way to get back a development (something that cost me in at least 2 games) – I should have put at least 1 or 2 Abandoned Mines in my deck. Sigh. I wanted to do this before I got to the tournament but had left my cards in the Van and had no time to go back and get them, so my build was locked in. D’oh! Another card that I could have probably ditched was the Defender of the Hold, which I had 2 of, figuring if anything, it would help against Lobber Crews (it did not based on my tournament pairings, which you’ll see below). I could have better used that slot on a Pilgrimage, a Called Back, and/or a Burn it Down. Sigh. I had also removed Stand Your Ground because it never seemed to work consistently enough for me due to the same-turn usage limitation and I have to admit, it might have been nice to have had at least 1 or 2 in my deck again.

Other than some of those things, I wasn’t unhappy with the deck and felt more confident with it than anything else so I felt mostly ready.

So after listing our decks, the pairing began. We were going to be playing 5 games Swiss Format with a cut to a Final 8, as expected, though several players were a bit surprised at them only running 5 rounds and I can see why they might have been dismayed.

GenConWCRound1.jpg

ROUND 1 OF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS BEGINS!!


GAME 1: Anyway, I was paired up with a very cool guy named Jeremy, for my first match and he was playing Dwarves, too – great, a mirror match, which in most cases means a coin-flip type of game, all things being equal. I got lucky and started first with a pretty strong opening, so I was thankful for that. I don’t recall much about his deck though I think it was (of course) similar in many ways to mine and ran Grudge-throwers, if I’m not mistaken. But I’d raced out to a pretty fast lead and won the first match, settling my nerves and setting a good tone for the entire tournament, imho. Time unfortunately ran out on him for the second match and if I recall correctly, the game was pretty close. I definitely didn’t play slowly (which would’ve been a lame thing to do, imho) but it just worked out that way with 2 Dwarf decks chugging away at each other. Jeremy was a class act and a good smart opponent who just lost to my good luck of a start, for the most part. My Record: 1 Win, 0 Losses, 0 Tied.


GAME 2: Yay, lucky me, another Dwarf deck. Sigh. I forget my opponent’s name but he was also a strong player (he ended up making the Final 8) and his surprising usage of Bounce-type cards caught me off-guard, as I’d already used a couple of High Elf’s Disdains as Development, thus giving me no real counter to his usage of Called Back or Pilgrimage. Grrr… He won game 1 fair and square and then it was up to me to try to nab Game 2. I was starting to turn the tide in that game though he had a disturbing way of always seeming to get just what he needed at the right time, but then time ran out on me and the tie-breaker gave him the win. Snif. I wanted to feel bummed but at least I hadn’t had Konrad’s luck as he had to play Shubfan’s nasty Bolt-thrower deck in the first round and loss very quickly to it. My Record: 1 Win, 1 Loss, 0 Tied.


GAME 3: Are you kidding me, another Dwarf deck? Yep, it appeared that I was cursed to play a Mirror match tournament. Bah. Anyway, my opponent for that match was also a really cool guy named, Rich (and his brother made it to the final 8 using a non-BT Empire Jumping Jacks deck). He was a really good sport, had a great friendly attitude and was a pleasure to play against. I’d say that even if I hadn’t won our match. I got off to a good start and he was running a Grudge-Thrower Dwarf deck but my quick start really solidified my chances for the win. This was the match, I think, where my Dragon Mage Awakenings came into play and really helped me keep some key units alive against a Master Rune of Spite. Again, despite having a win under my belt, I definitely played quickly so that he wouldn’t think I was trying to stall or something. In our second match, a moment came where I realized that I could seriously disrupt his card draw as he’d left himself a bit open to attack in that regard and I pressed the advantage, leaving him pretty hungry for cards – from that moment, it was pretty much headed my way and I actually won our second game before time ran out, giving me the official win. Very cool guy, would love to play him again. Rich, if you’re reading this, I hope you play again next year. My Record: 2 Wins, 1 Loss, 0 Tied.

GAME 4: For some reason, I just knew it would be a Dwarf deck, YET AGAIN, and it was. For crying out loud. Can’t recall the guy’s name who I played but he was a very strong player and really, really knew his stuff. Nice guy, and a very good sport but also deadly efficient with his Grudge-Thrower based Dwarf deck. I was feeling really good when I won the first game but it happened probably a bit too quickly and with my natural inclination NOT to try and be cheesy and stall, the second game suddenly got pretty dicey for me due to his strong usage of the Grudge-throwers. I’d also (foolishly) not gone after the 2 (!!) Dwarf Rangers he’d put into his Quest zone. This was a game where I made a few tiny mistakes and they cost me a win. The biggest one was that I was sitting on a game-changing Judgment of Verena for much of the middle-part of the game but didn’t have Developments in all my zones and couldn’t afford to hurt myself at that point. But looking back it would probably have been better to just slow things down since time was an ally for me, really, especially with one win already under my belt in this game. Anyway, through some pretty good luck, he managed to burn 2 zones in one turn due to the stupid Grudge-thrower and Dwarf Rangers – even when I finally had blown the GT up, he had another ready to use. Gah. We ended up Tying, which I was pretty concerned about since it meant that I definitely had to win my last game to make the Final 8. My Record: 2 wins, 1 Loss, 1 Tie.

GAME 5: This was it. Win this or go home. I figured it had to be another Dwarf deck, right? Wrong. It was Jon’s (Shubfan76) horrifying BT deck. My heart sank as I’d just witnessed it in all its hideous glory the day before and it had already destroyed Konrad earlier in the day. But a small part of me said, “We’re not going down without a fight at least.” A stubborn part of me wanted to prove that it was NOT an auto-win against a Dwarf deck. However, the first game certainly didn’t do much to boost my confidence as Shubfan smoked me in no time, easily winning in classic BT style. Ugh. I was starting to get that feeling of doomed inevitability as the second game started but then things changed. I decided to use a Ranger as a Scout instead, since I’d noticed that Shub had put only a single Support into his Quest zone (a Dwarf/HE banner). I also blew that up right away with a timely Demolition!. This left him precariously low on card draw while I’d just gotten two convenient Innovations in a row and was rapidly building up my resources at that point. He still was having trouble with card draw as we went forward partly due to some of my focus on it but also I suspect due to some bad luck, as well. Before I knew it, I had the win. Suddenly the BT deck didn’t seem so scary. Final game in the match, winner takes the match. I start strong and he seems to have only an average start. I get a quick burn and continue to press but he’s starting to build up a good resource base, though I’m still focusing on keeping his card draw down, which seems to be working pretty well. In this game, my High Elf’s Disdain came through I think at least twice (though I could be remembering it incorrectly, sorry to Shub if I am) and I was really pleased by that. Things were tense as I had a burn and 6 or 7 damage on his Quest zone while he was taking his turn and mulling over the two cards in his hand. Did he have that horrible Bolt-thrower in his hand and was he just figuring things out or was he taking his time because he didn’t have a lot of options? I didn’t know but I felt the incredible suspense building. Suddenly, Shub put his cards down and said, “I concede.” I could see that he honestly had nothing to help him and I would’ve been able to get the burn the next turn. I’d done it! I’d gotten the win it seemed that I would need to almost certainly make the Final 8. And I’d beaten a hated BT deck with my little Dwarf deck o’ Doom. I was super encouraged by the win and even more so because Shub was clearly a very, VERY good player. He was also a very good sport about the loss and I liked that he played quickly and assuredly during the match. My Record: 3 Wins, 1 Loss, and 1 Tie.

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A couple of quick thoughts about my deck’s performance – I didn’t notice very many of the Dwarf players I faced, if any, using Master Rune of Valaya to cancel damage, even though it easily saved my butt on at least 3 different occasions. I was surprised by that. My usage of Dragon Mage Awakening surprised nearly everyone I played which I found amusing. It really helped me out in several games for a variety of different reasons, so I was gratified that it came through for me because it surely seemed an odd choice to some. I was also happy I used High Elf’s Disdain, despite the high cost, as it helped me out in my most critical match, despite being mostly Development fodder in several other matches. Ancestral Tomb was awesome for me nearly every game, as well. And a few players were caught off-guard by my usage of the Slayers of Karak Kadrin to kill my own Attacking Units, so I was happy that I’d thought of doing so on my own, without having to see someone else do it first. In retrospect, though, I badly needed either another Verena or some way to get back played Developments as that omission did cost me a few games, I suspect.


So the big moment is here. Gio is going nuts because he’s won 4 games and only lost 1, which is insanely impressive for a total new player who only just learned the game about 3 days before. I was feeling a bit jealous since he’d had such great match-ups for his deck – facing only one Dwarf deck, and 2 Orc/Skavens, 1 DE, and a BT deck. But then I remembered that I built his entire deck and that cheered me up a bit. So James Hata steps up to announce the Final 8 and my jaw dropped when I wasn’t on the list. ShubFan also looked confused as he said it was very, very unusual for a 3-1-1 to NOT make the final cut in this amount of players. After asking about it, it turns out that another guy (who was the brother of my Game 3 opponent, Rich) had the same record but ostensibly a better SOS (Strength of Schedule) according to the tournament software. This was pretty frustrating for me since I have zero control over that aspect of my tournament. It may not be feasible but I think that in situations like that, the two tied players should have the right to play each other in a one-off, as it didn’t seem terribly fair to me. :(

But to be honest, I was pretty happy with the win over Shub’s uber-tough BT deck and it nearly felt like a Championship win to me, in all honestly, so it took some of the sting out of the proceedings. Gio ended up losing a match he could have and probably should have won (Rich and I watched it go down to the wire) and that was it for our little group’s efforts on the day. Still, in retrospect, it was super enjoyable. All my opponents were very good sports who were enjoyable to play against. I had secured 9th place out of 40. Not too shabby for a father of 3 with little time to truly playtest and very little real tournament experience. ;)

My only disappointment was in how little time we had for our matches and in the quality of prize support – which from my perspective was pretty laughable/embarrassing. But that’s just my opinion and it’s based on the quality of prize support I saw given away not even 2 years earlier from FFG for the UFS World Championships, so take it with a grain of salt. Still, it was pretty sad, all things considered, I thought.

Anyway, after seeing how things went down at the World Championships, it’s pretty clear that 1. Dwarves are the new standard of awesome, 2. Bolt-Thrower decks are no less tough but they are beatable if you play against them in certain ways and have a bit of luck (which is something that any player would want anyway), 3. Orc/Skaven and/or DE decks are hurting right now, and 4. Chaos is dead-in-the-water, sadly.

Okay, it’s 2 am and I’m tired. Signing off for now. Feedback is appreciated. Hope this proved interesting and/or enjoyable to someone at least.

Was it me that you were playing in the 4th round? I remember that I tied somebody, but I don't remember the name of whom I was facing. I'm the second guy in the second picture of yours there, the one with the white card box and orange deck box in front of him.

-Daniel

Prize support for LCGs, I'm afraid, will always be probably a bit lack luster compared to CCG. You can give out packs with CCGs... and yes UFS prize support from two years ago was... better IIRC... (but stll not what its player base wanted).

It seems unless you are giving out cash money, and everyone gets a cut, with everyone attending getting some alt art piece, you can't make everyone happy.

The top two got plaques, counters, play mat and pins. ... Not sure what else one could create to give out...

I played Gio in round 4 with my DElf/Skaven deck. He was very fun to play and we had a great match. Very sportsman and all around good guy to play against. I don't believe you and I had a chance to play.

You are right though, Dwarf clearly took over the tournament. Kinda a shame that it was so dominate. I prefer a rock paper scissors field myself.

-Bernie

Hi, nice tournament write up. I wanted to add a couple of comments about what I saw at the world. I dont want this to be seen as entirely negative as I thoroughly enjoyed myself playing in the matches but there were issues which I think were obvious to everyone there.

The first was the prize support which was really very poor, both for the Worlds and the Draft on the Sunday. The participation prize for the World Championship, the flagship event for this game, was a Warcry promo card. Yes, you heard that right, a promo card for a dead game which I suspect most people probably had never heard of. It was frankly embarassing. I understand that its difficult to address prize support for an LCG but your flagship event should have some effort put into it. Something as simple as a non playable "I was at the Worlds 2010" promo card would have been nice as a marker of having been there.

The other aspect which annoyed me was the general lack of organisation. I have played a lot of CCG's and a lot of tournaments, from 8 man things in the back of a pub to major national affairs and this has to rank of one of the worst organised of the lot. With 40 players it isnt hard to provide table numbers for your pairings and yet the TO insisted on walking around the unmarked tables calling names. It didnt help that we dubbed him whispering man early on. In a room with lots of tannoy announcements and L5R players screaming banzai you need someone with a voice that carries. I am sure he was a really nice bloke but the method of sorting pairings was pretty poor.

Having said that I thoroughly enjoyed playing in the tournament and in the sunday draft. Hopefully FFG will learn some lessons from running larger card tournaments and things will improve in the future.

Zeruul said:

Was it me that you were playing in the 4th round? I remember that I tied somebody, but I don't remember the name of whom I was facing. I'm the second guy in the second picture of yours there, the one with the white card box and orange deck box in front of him.

-Daniel

Yes it was - you were a very good opponent!!

vermillian said:

Prize support for LCGs, I'm afraid, will always be probably a bit lack luster compared to CCG. You can give out packs with CCGs... and yes UFS prize support from two years ago was... better IIRC... (but stll not what its player base wanted).

It seems unless you are giving out cash money, and everyone gets a cut, with everyone attending getting some alt art piece, you can't make everyone happy.

The top two got plaques, counters, play mat and pins. ... Not sure what else one could create to give out...

How about some product? Yeah, I'll admit that with a LCG format there aren't any high-priced Rares up for grabs but (and I can't speak for anyone else), I could always use more cool cards so I can make less decks using proxies. I also laughed at the stupid Warcry card and just chucked mine straight away. Why I would want a card from a dead game is beyond me.

But I would prefer this didn't devolve into a discussion about that particular disappointment. I would, however, love any other comments or feedback. It was a lot of fun despite FFG's lackluster support (lackluster in many ways though I appreciated James' hard work in running it).

or some prize support from the first 3 product runs IE: CORE, ASSAULT ON ULTHUAN, GREEN (was that enemy cycle right?) all of there "RARES" being only 1 to a box. ALT art would be a HUGE thing. Or Holo product. Take key cards from each run and holo those bad boys out, tadah, prize support.

I would make a booboo in my pants for holo bolt trowers...

TL;DR

Just kidding, I read it. Can I have my cookie now?

Would you like to apologise for saying that the Thrower decks are overrated and terrible those zillions of times now? gui%C3%B1o.gif

And I should note, another Dwarf report with 4 mirror matches and 1 Thrower match. Nice metagame.

I still maintain that you are better off with Alliances than the Awakening. Oh, and Order in Chaos is much, much better than I initially thought (I rated it as decent but now I'm pegging it more at the top of the power curve) - instead of 3x Disdain, I think it's better to run less and then Order in Chaos since the game vs. Thrower is likely to go long enough that you will find one and then re-use it. It also lets you OiC for Demolition + Demolition early, which is a savage beating. I'm sure you saw my latest listing for this archetype already.

Anyway. Nice job man, 3-1-1 is very respectable. It's a shame that they didn't run 6 rounds so that tiebreakers were less important. I am not sure how many times I missed t8 on tiebreakers playing tournament Magic, but it's definitely a whole bunch. It always sucks.

Yes. Name the type of cookie and it's yours. :P

I will apologize to some extent but with 2 caveats:

1. When I was initially thinking that it sucked big-time, it was far less potent and much more fiddly and luck-based, in all fairness to me.

2. I beat a really good one at the World Championships so maybe it's not 85-100% vs. Dwarves, like some have suggested here ::: looking at Clamatius ::: AHEM! :P

I'm still unsure about Alliances vs the usage of the DMA's in my deck - they honestly helped me so many times that it's hard to imagine the Alliances doing much more for me - though in all fairness, they are able to help with my resource-engine due to the power icon. Hmm... Also, I fully agree about Order in Chaos - if I had actually thought about how nasty that combines with Mining Tunnels, I'd have almost certainly used it. D'oh!

Thanks for the props on the finish - I surprised myself since playing 4 different mirror matches is a crap-shoot, all things considered.

I never managed to get my head up into the heady heights of the Dwarf end of the table, but down near the bottom I had a fantastic time playing really cool people and having a good laugh. Just wanted to extend my thanks to everyone I played and thank everyone for being so welcoming to a jetlagged Brit! There was a lot of really positive stuff going on at those tables and it made my weekend being able to take part - even if I my performance was something to be desired!

Neil

Wytefang said:

1. When I was initially thinking that it sucked big-time, it was far less potent and much more fiddly and luck-based, in all fairness to me.

2. I beat a really good one at the World Championships so maybe it's not 85-100% vs. Dwarves, like some have suggested here ::: looking at Clamatius ::: AHEM! :P

1. No it wasn't -_- But, lets let this issue die.

2. 85% assumes perfect play, and to be fair, we've seen some dwarf lists posted here that are probably a bit better than that due to recurring support destruction to disrupt the early game plan. I'd say 60-40 in thrower's favor vs. a tuned dwarf anti-thrower list unless they are REALLY all-in and playing 2-3x High Elf's Disdain etc. But again, this assumes perfect play. If thrower makes a timing mistake, all bets are off and the dwarf player is well positioned to capitalize.

Thanks for the write-up. That was a good read. I see some friends in the crowd!

Wytefang said:

2. I beat a really good one at the World Championships so maybe it's not 85-100% vs. Dwarves, like some have suggested here ::: looking at Clamatius ::: AHEM! :P

To be fair, I specifically gave the decklist that I was using to test that and that I hadn't tried heavy Disdain yet. Sooo, yeah. Turns out that the Disdain plan works (but doesn't mean you autowin by any means), as you showed.

On the other hand, the fact that the Thrower decks were beating up on the wall of Dwarves in general tends to reinforce my original point - the Dwarf decks that weren't effectively heavily pre-sideboarded vs. Thrower (overloaded support removal or Disdains) were getting smashed.

The Empire thrower plan with recursive Judgements is looking like it could well be pretty nasty vs. Dwarf thrower and Dwarf units, by the way. I think dutpotd was really onto something there. I don't expect it to be as good against rush though.

Yeah I really like Dutpotd's Deck, if he had more time to tune it he probably would have beaten me. I think you're correct that empire thrower is better against dwarfs and in the mirror, but worse against rush. I think that March of the damned will shake things up though. I like a few of the resource options for chaos and I think that a lizardman highelf deck with some disdains and support kill to back up their units could be ok.

I think the environment post March could look something like this:

Dwarves >= Thrower >> Destro Control > Dwarves.

I suspect that Dwarf Thrower will beat Destro Control, even if you presideboard with Grimgors and stuff. Empire Thrower will just hammer Destro further into the turf than the Dwarf version - it gets long enough to set up repeated, savage Will+Verena antics.

I'm glad most people liked my deck idea, I was pretty much expecting the worst when I tossed it together last minute and from its performance plus the response here on the forums I am very happy with the way things turned out.

Next time I'll be ready with a more fine tuned deck so that I can give you a better match Tim... At least that's what I would say if I believed I had the discipline to not dream up wacky last minute ideas and match them with an awkwardly huge desire to run them ^^

Wytefang's deck here is pretty cool too, you can tell he was thinking about what he would need to battle Thrower and I liked reading about when he suceeded at that.

For the record, I have never heard of going 3-1-1 and not making top 8. Strength of Schedule is my nemisis too, I was ousted out of UFS Canadian Nationals top 8 last year with a 3-1-2 record. The sad thing was that the guy I beat in round 2 was a friend and rule moderator from Winnipeg who I had recently beat at his Winnipeg regionals in the final match. He went on to lose every game at Canadian Nationals, even to some decks that had no business winning games at all, frankly I don't even think the one had a kill condition against half the field. His many loses is why I finished 9th, had he won '1' game all tourney I would have made the cut with the highest SoS of those with 3-1-2 records. So sad. I still cry at night about it lol.

- dut

Thank you very much for the kind words, Dut. I lack faith in my deck-building capabilities and could definitely use way more practice and thought into everything (just need more time!!). I also appreciate the sympathy on the 9th place finish and missing out on the final 8. :(

Sorry to hear about your UFS experience. That was a really nifty game - when I worked at FFG (back in 2008 as the Line Coordinator for the Mutant Chronicles CMG), Jonathan Ledezma (surely you know of him?) taught me how to play and shared a ton of tips and tricks with me. I had an insane collection of foils and rares and a buttload of cards from having worked there. I ended up selling them for a ridiculous song and prayer online once I was laid-off. Wish I'd kept them. :(