Arnkell is a ridiculously weak Relic. To find proof just take a look at the Flight Potion, which is not just a 'normal' Magic Item, but a Trinket too! Why is it so bad ? Aside from making the player who recieves it groan with frustration, and having the others grinning with schadenfreude. It's only saving grace would be if it could make you teleport to the CoC when in the Inner Region, but can it even do that?

Tiggurix said:

Yes, it can. Official from John Goodenough.

Ah, I see now that you may only teleport with the flight potion if you may roll a die to move. Well, in that case, perhaps I was mistaken about Arnkell. It seems an item with such capabilities really does deserve the title of 'Relic' after all.

I've read a number of comments and reviews on various websites dismissing Arnkell, due to the misunderstanding of its ability. Apart from the Cloak of Feathers (which is much harder to come by), Arnkell (as far as I can remember) is the only teleportation effect useable within the Inner Region.

Well, it's still inferior to the Cloak of Feathers, that's for sure. Those followers could very well come in handy, especially against the Ice Queen or Eagle King, or in a Battle Royale.

Yup. I totally won the other day by using Arnkell to skip the entire middle region. Shortest game we've ever played: finally managed to come in at under two hours!

i could not agree more about how useless the arknell is. by the time you can acquire it you have at least 1 or 2 followers that help you more than the arknell ever could. if you could use it in in the inner region it would be a completely different story. my friends and i have started calling it the "popes testicles." cuz the only thing used less than the arknell are the...

punk666 said:

Except that you can use it on the Inner Region.

that just doesnt make sense to me. i have played this game and its various incarnations for 20+ years. no item/relic/spell should be able to affect your movement once inside the inner region. this wont be the first time i have been wrong and definately not the last. that is why you build up and go through the dungeon. if the arknell can teleport you from the plain of peril to the crown it is the most powerful card in the game.

punk666 said:

Currently there are three such effects that allow you to move about in the Inner Region. Arnkell and Cloak of Feathers both allow you to jump from any space on the Inner Region to the Crown of Command (or any other Inner Region space, but let's be realistic). Transference Spell allows you to swap places with a character in your region, which includes the possibility of using it on the Inner Region, swapping with someone at the Crown for example. If playing RAW Dungeon, you can pick your Treasure, whereas Relics are random (1/4 chance of Arnkell).

Transference sounds like it might be plausable, but overall I'm with punk666 on this, why make changes to ancient and well understood rules that teleport is not possible in the inner region? Certain game rules are like laws, in that they should over-ride other indications of what might be within the rules, one is that your turn ends the moment you lose a life (unless it can be avoided), the second is that you can not teleport between regions or within the inner region.

Now I admit that the teleport spell specifies that the inner region is excluded, and that the Cloak of Feathers and Arkness does not specify it, but I would I say this is more to do with lazy card wording than intention. The use of the word teleport should prohibit the Arknell's use in the inner region, if it can't be found somewhere in the rules that inner region teleportation is not possible then precedence suggests it should not be possible. Same applies to the Cloak of Feathers.

I also think that " making the player who recieves it groan with frustration, and having the others grinning with schadenfreude " is a perfectly acceceptable outcome for the card being drawn. In this game it is desirable to have these moments isn't it ?

However, so long as everyone agree's at the start what the capability of these cards will be then it doesn't matter which way you go. It's for these kind of things that we always set a ' Gamesmaster ' at the start of any game. Gamesmasters word is final.

yyami said:

Since when?

The designer John Goodenough has explicitly stated that all these things work in the Inner Region. The phrasing on the cards is deliberate.

Cynewulf said:

My 2nd edition rules make it very clear that you can't teleport in the Inner Region.

So I guess that means since 1985 or so.

The 4th edition - especially the FFG version - is not bound to any rules of previous editions.

But it just isn't that simple, precedence and heritage bind the new games to the old games, which means for players who have been playing with certain very clear rules (some of them we can call laws ) since 1985, the old ruleset still stands.

New players can only interpret what is written for them in the new rules and on the cards and so might come to a different conclusion, but for many older players I'm sure that suggesting you can teleport in the inner region is a bit like telling football fans that after 90 minutes we will use multi-ball to settle a draw!

So now, I understand the card wording, it will apply differently for both generations. To the new players, it means you can teleport without restriction, to the old players, the word teleport by its nature has restriction.

So for me the solution is elegant, even if I would prefer that the old rule was more respected within the new game.

since i first wrote about my opposition regarding teleporting and manipulitating movement within the inner region my group and i have tried playing with these new "suggestions" i should say that we play with all of the expansions and every card in the current edition being available. i like it. in our games someone would get lucky early and build up for an assault through the dungeon. 4 out of 5 games we played ended with someone winning that never had a talisman in their possession and murdered the dungeon end guy with some magical/item enhanced bs to gain the CoC. these current version changes have added some welcome strategy and caution to our sessions. i love having the transference spell and waiting for one of my competitors to race through the dungeon with mark of glory/lucky charm/and the dragons teeth only to switch places with me at the plain of peril and not possess a talisman...

all history, rule books and what mr G says about the current incarnation of this game aside, decide for yourself. i dont know about everyone else but the people i play with(myself excluded)are fairly intelligent and no matter how many times we play this game there are always questions regarding rules and procedures the next time we play. we spend a significant amount time discussing situations like if the acquistion spell would take the arknell if you used it to teleport from the plain or peril to the CoC, what happens? i got the arknell you have acquisition. who wins? anyone who says look at the procedure chart gets buried in the back yard. im in the the valley of fire. you have the destruction or acquisition spell. both spells can only be cast at the start of the opposing players turn. common sense dictates i would be burned alive yet you dont ever deal with(as a talisman character) the consequnces of the space you start you turn on. a very cheap way to kill another player yet it should be possible. i feel like every time a question like this is answered regarding this game it raises two more questions. if it seems like im bashing this game i apologise. i enjoy playing talisman more than all the other crap any of you have ever played. currently it is as close to the "perfect game" as is available. rambling....

punk666 said:

Or one could just read the Acquisition card, which states "cast at the start of your turn before you move". If I have Arnkell, I use it on my turn, there is nothing your Acquisition can do about it during my turn and if I use it, it is gone before your turn comes around. Now, Shatter, that one I'll grant could cause issues. Around here, we have a slot of casting start of turn spells before another character does anything, usually "wait..." when their turn starts. Prevents it from becoming "he who slaps the card down fastest wins". Active player has first dibs during their own turn, but in a case like Shatter vs Arnkell, Shatter would come first, because it's "at the start of the turn", Arnkell only during movement.

punk666 said:

Destruction also doesn't affect a character, so it has no bearing on this situation. As for the Valley of Fire, you only need a Talisman to enter it, not to remain there. I suppose one way to look at it is that the Talisman is a key that allows you access through the flames, which only burn toward the outside, on the inside you just see the light show .

Yup I second that it is almost the perfect board game.

Our friends love to discuss the semantics of the wordings and come to a justified conclusion. A good part of the game.

im glad our group isnt the only one that enjoys discussing the game as much as we like playing it. this isnt monopoly or chutes and ladders. its a great game that makes you use logic, reason and common sense.

punk666 said:

The three greatest evils !

punk666 said:

I'm pretty sure the whole beat the LOD +8 rule is a variation on the 2nd ed dungeon. In that one you could also teleport to the CoC but you only had to roll a single 6 wo any combat. This keeps the same strat but makes it more plausable... you have to really deserve the teleport.