ME ccg is still active. And quite expensive on the secondary market. I have a few starter decks but have never been able to figure the game out.

If the game is fun will having the option to buy more locations to explore be a problem? Besides you don't have to buy ALL of them even if you like it. Think of it more as options than requirements. It's kind of like saying you shouldn't bother to read Fellowship of the Ring, because you won't get the whole story without buying Two Towers and Return of the King too.

I haven't played the MECCG, but I suspect this FFG version will be taking a much more detailed, up close and personal look at each location. Besides, how much did it cost to get a full play set of all 500 cards in MECCG? None of the chapter packs have been announced for the FFG version, nor even card lists for the core set. So it is premature to say how long each location will be focused on. I think it is safe to say the core set will not be focused on exploring Farmer Maggot's field though. The core set is what sells the game and it has to be successful for FFG to get any sales on future chapter packs, so expect it to be a self contained game designed to be fun on it's own. FFG will post the rules online before the game goes on sale, and there will be multiple reviews to read here and over on BGG after release to help you decide if it is right for you. If it is like the current LCG core sets, you should be able to buy it online for ~$25 so it won't be nearly the investment it would take to the same variety of cards in a typical ccg.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way bashing this game or FFG. I love their games and the quality of their products. If I did not think this game had serious potential I would not even be posting in this sub-forum. Middle-Earth Quest was not the type of game I was wanting (flexible questing adventure game...it is really a strategy game). This on the other hand looks somewhat like MECCG.

The art does look really good. The solo/co-op aspects are the only reason I am even considering it.

I am just being cautious so I don't fail a corruption-check and turn into ol Gollum himself!

(besides, like I said I have all the MECCG cards I'll ever need. 7 booster boxes(Wizards, Dragons, Dark Minions) and 1 box of starters, all the books, maps, dice etc.)

jhaelen said:

jhaelen said:

This was well put.

But let's be honest: most of us are collectors, and collectors are obsessive completists. And since FFG has made it so easy to be a completist with the LCG format, it's almost compulsory.

With Magic the Gathering, building a full playset is insanely outside of most people's price range. A full playset for the 2011 core set is around $1000 on the secondary market, if you can find it. But since that's out of the question, there exists a lot of "casual" collectors who don't have full playsets, but have a lot of cards and build interesting and fun decks out of those limited cards.

I think there are fewer of these "casual" collectors in the LCG format. And while I don't have any numbers to back this up, I suspect that a "casual" collector of magic might spend less per year than a completist buying an LCG. Of course, the LCG player will have a lot more cards, and a lot more variety, but he or she will have spent more money, too.

I think this is how FFG is turning a healthy profit from these LCGs. By lowering the price-point for completism, they induce a casual gamer to spend more than he probably would have on a blind purchase game in order to get a full playset of the LCG.

He spends more, but he gets more. It's like super-sizing your hobby.

I think I will buy the core set of the Lord of the Rings LCG. But since it is cooperative, I think I will do as efidm suggests: play the core set until I get bored, and then buy expansions, probably only the big box expansions. I already collect A Game of Thrones, and I don't think I can afford to buy every product for another LCG. And, since it's not competitive, there's not that additional inducement to have as many deck options as possible.

I don't think that it's a great deal for people who want to play multiple LCGs. I do kinda wish that expansions came out bi-monthly so I could have more time to explore the cards and fiddle around with decks. Even though there is no real official support for, say, Warhammer: Invasion, competitive play is definitely out there, and while the arms race is significantly less expensive than M:TG, it still exists. Can't have everything, I guess. If LotR LCG offers enough game variety like MECCG did, I'd be ok with keeping up. I think the real issue here is that we, the consumers, decided we would pay a little more than we should for these products AND buy 3x copies of core sets, and now we're hooked!

I'll just have to wait to see how the cards are distributed through the sets and play it to know if it is right for me.

Toqtamish said:

Then you missed something. If you want an abstract of the gameplay, mail me at martin[underscore]bigot[at]yahoo[dot]fr (since this forum doesn't support private messaging, and the game description hasn't its place on those boards).

Karazax said:

At most, FFG version can be as detailed as MECCG, but not more. MECCG is a game that allows you to build your whole strategy around Mirkwood : go raise the Elves at Thranduil's Hall, visit Beorn's House, get Gwaihir at its eyrie, and rescue some prisoners in Dol Guldur, just to name the major possibilities in this small area.

Frog said:

From what I understood about the game, Quests form the "deck to beat". So it is just the challenge that is quite limited (in term of variety). You have 12 unique heroes to base your decks upon (let's assume you start with them in play), but we may have a lot of variety here (if you break the precons). You could base them upon a sphere of influence (or more likely 2), or a common trait (dwarf, ranged attack, and so on, according to what the game will provide). I guess that permutating heroes between decks will have important effects in the resulting decklist.

In WH:I, the Core Set comes with 4 preconstructed decks. You can mix them to try to build a "better" deck, but the result is quite limited... with 1 Core Set. With a second Core Set, you can base your strategy on cards that were only once or twice in the Core Set, and thus create totally new decks. (BTW, adding in a third Core Set doesn't improve much your decks). I guess LotR will be the same : with 1 core set, your custom decks will be quite identical to the precons, but with a second Core Set, you may try new strategies that might be competitive (against the quest deck). Plus the second Core Set allows you to play with 2 more peoples, so it is not "just for the cards" buy.

I guess the "battlepacks" will allows you to fine tune your heroes' decks. But perhaps they will introduce new creatures and locations to be placed in the quest deck (like the character packs of "WoW : the Adventure Game" add new encounters to the game).

Last, since the game was demoed at GenCon, * crosses his fingers *, FFG will likely released an noline version of the rulebook soon. With this document, it'll be easier to know if the game will please you or not.

Indeed they are...but at least an LCG is a step in the right direction.

Karazax said:

Just as FYI MECCG is one of THE most expensive CCG's to get cards for from a game that has long been out of print today. At the time of the printing of the game though most stores were discount selling it because it never caught on due to the complexity of the game. I bought or traded for at least 5-6 boxes of the base set and each expansion along with numerous starter deck boxes and got them for about 1/10th of what they go for in today's secondary market. Hell the map pack booklet sells for $200-300 a shot and it sat on shelves back in the day collecting dust. I would still hope that as a LCG this version of the game is much simpler and has a price tag of far less than all previous CG's in the ME genre.

Toqtamish- If you still have your cards there are many player aids out there now and many detailed guides to learning how to play the game. If you like the ME lore go dig around some online and you'll be playing the game in no time at all. In many respects it plays more like a BG with cards as player aids than it does as a pure CG.

I just looked in an old box of card games I had from the 90's and found 4 boxes with the rules and another batch of cards not in the box of Middle Earth the Wizards card game. I had never played it and just bought it for the art work. I was playing Magic at the time but bought some other card games, Spellfire, Wyvern.

I am looking forward to this new card game however to play. Quite frankly I think I will like the co-op format. I'm sure I will more use of these cards than the ones in the boxes.

Frog said:

Maybe board games are what you should stick to if the price of a card game is something you have a hard time with. Just my opinion.

Going off of the "friggin' cooperative" bark ( to Jhaelen), couldn't a team of players make multiple decks out of the same single set? With each expansion adding more cards to each? What I'm asking is, not every player needs to buy their own set, right? Not like Call of Cthulhu or Game of Thrones, which by being competitive LCGs, requires everyone to buy their own sets. So If I bought one of everything (the aforeestimated $300/yr), that would be enough to supply 3-4 players worth of decks? I suppose if you really wanted to go the "skinflint" route, you could charge everyone a few bucks to use one of your new expansions...

On the other hand...I loved Decipher's Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Both defunct. Player pools will continue to dwindle until snuffed out. In my area/circle of friends, I have no opponents. Thousands of dollars...barely worth the paper they're printed on. In fact, I have quite a few CCGs I invested in back in the day, most of them I am truly embarrassed to have ever been involved with. All of these are even more worthless. For the sake of argument, let's assume that this new LOTR LCG came out during the same time as all those embarrassing CCGs and I invested in it as well. If I were to wander into my closet, which card game could I play right now? More than a decade later? While stranded on a deserted island?

THAT seems to be worth the investment. Go on, get bored with it. Bury it in your attic for several years. And when you dig it out again, maybe it won't be just pretty-looking kindling for the fireplace.

Which the solo play aspect of this LCG seems to allow one to do.

300 dollars a year is only what- 20-30 bucks a month. i'm not rich so i cut out a 12 pack of beer or don't eat out a couple times a month. easy. my hobby's paid for. How much do you spend eating out every month when you could make your lunches and breaks. how much do you spend on brand name clothing when you can go to value village and still get some nice clothes. how much do you spend on internet, cell phones with dozens of apps, cable with all the sport packages and movies and porn? lcg provides and even playing ground. ccg is for whoever has the biggest pocketbook. i don't know your income bracket. maybe an extra 30 bucks is expensive. but speaking for myself, 300 a year for awesome games i love(thrones, lord of rings) is very attainable. hell, i gave up hockey to play these games. some may say that's no sacrifice, why would you like hockey?

snaggrriss said:

good idea, for various reasons i cant drink anymore, so my thinking was spend the saved money on packs right? ha! wrong, bills billls billlllls billllls

You come out of nowhere to cause trouble?

So far, I've spent in 2011:

-Core Set - $30

-Five monthly expansions: $75

-Massing at Osgiliath: $15

Total: $120

For one booster box of Magic the Gathering: $110

Based on most CCGs value per dollar, I have to say that the LCG format is king. I use to be an avid MtG fan, but over time I gave up it's system. In order to be competitive I was spending upwards to 60-75 dollars a month on a WHOLE box of booster packs to try and get the cards I needed for deck strategies and muling through comic store displays and E-bay to buy overpriced singles. It finally burned me out as I saw how much waste was created by this system. How much card-stock was basically thrown into my paper recycling bin at work to at least make some of it seem to have 're-purpose' for the hundreds upon hundreds of useless doubles.

I stopped playing card games for a while because of the waste of money and resources that went with it. When I saw that FFG was creating card games that had a specified card list and that the expansion packs also had set cards in them, I was immediately drawn back in, Practically no doubles because of no randomization and very fair pricing compared to other card game models. It was still a little expensive before they changed the format of the expansions to include triples, but still no where near what I paid a month for MtG. The only disappointment I have had with LotR:LCG is the starting set not completely following the same setup and some useful cards only coming in doubles and singles. However, since I pretty much only play this for personal enjoyment and not professionally, it doesn't bother me to make a few paper pen proxies to make up for them. Now that I am only paying 15 dollars a month and every time it's brand new content that adds to the game, I am very happy with the cost effectiveness of this hobby.

I know people who are willing to pay that much a month just for a online video game that only gets expanded every year or two! So I think I am getting a very nice deal on LCGs from a content and price perspective.

If you think this is expensive it isn't compared to most ccgs. Lets take magic as an example, you buy 1 pack for 4$ you get 15 maybe 16 cards (possible to get a foil chase). The breakdown only includes 1 rare, lets assume you stick to one or two colors you really love. Based on the newest expansion innistrad you will need 42 cards for each color 13 of which are rare or mythic (only one per pack) This doesn't include artifacts or rare lands. Now if we want a playset and assume we are super lucky and can pack or trade for what we need we are looking at roughly 208$ every 3 months or so for 1 color, 416$ for 2. Over a year this adds up to over 1600$ probably closer to 2000$. Do you want to be a tier 1 player who can regularly win tournaments? double that number maybe more. LCGs are an incredible value even if you can't trade away the extras. This is a fun game at a reasonable price in a format that most adults can afford if they chose to.

Hey guys, this thread was resurrected from over a year ago.

I would like to point out though, that I picked up Warhammer: Invasion, all three big box sets, and about 15 of the battle packs for less than $200. Retail price is one thing, and actual price is another. I also only spend about $10-12 on the adventure packs for LotR typically.

Either way, this game is far cheaper than a CCG but more expensive than your typical board game. I don't mind at all, it's about $10-15/month on average. That's not much at all really. I've been paying that for MMOs for over a decade (sometimes 2 at a time), and when I stop paying for that I don't get to keep playing.

Yeah, I agree with most of you guys...this game is way affordable and so worth it. It all comes down to what you are willing to spend your money on. I personally love spending money on LOTR products (especially ones like this card game that features so much original Tolkien art). They are doing a great job with this game.

DurinIII said:

agreed, the theme here is key for me, no other tolkein product out there is satifying my hunger, LOTR online is computer based which hurts my eyes, and frankly i prefer something 'real' to show for my money, and most other LOTR games are based on the films not the books, which i dont particularly like, so they could double the price and id still buy- id just have to save twice as long

Frog said:

Frog said:

This isn't boardgame, is a collectible card game.

People are throwing out comparisions for Magic: The Gathering, here is one for the Decipher CCG: the ultra rare Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight and Emperor Palpaltine from the Death Star II expansion were worth more then $300 apiece. That is a years worth of an FFG LCG for one card. Darth Vaders were worth over $100. When playing Star Wars, you play a light side deck, and then a dark side deck against the same player. To have a deck worth playing, you needed many rare, powerful cards, and would be looking at about $500 decks if you bought the cards individully. Want to build a space deck? Now you are going to need multiple copies of the more powerful space ships, which run about $20 apiece (my favorite was Artoo-Detoo In Red 5).

I love playing CCGs, but the cost was just too much. Paying hunderds for boxes of booster packs every time a new set come out (3x a year for a normal CCG) in order to keep up is not fun (and then have hunderes of copies of common cards that are worthless). I got back into playing only because Game of Thrones is an LCG. $500 later I have all the cards for the game, and can build the same deck as any world champ.

I've got a similar opinion like mason or Avery Frost. I stopped playing CCGs some years ago. In LCGs, especially cooperative ones, you get much more for your money. For 15 $ / 10 € FFG / the publisher in my country creates 2 new player cards for every sphere, a new hero, and 3 new neutral cards. In just the amount you need, not more and not less. And FFG invents a new, hopefully interesting quest with its own story, thematically fitting locations, objectives and treachery cards etc. I think this is a really good deal. And if I ever want to stop buying new APs, the disadvantages are not as severe as in competitive games with a high power creep - you can still grab a friend or 2 or 3 and play the quests you already have with the cards you already have. If I'd use a constructed deck consisting of my old MtG cards from Mirage and Visions and so on, I just don't have a chance nowadays...

And with traits, it's preferable for players too, to create thematically fitting decks (e.g Rohan, or creatures+eagles) to get synergies. This is much more interesting than the "uhm, card X has a little better use-to-cost ratio than card Y, so I've got to use it to win the game. Flavour is for losers!"

So in a nutshell, in my opinion, this cooperative LCG is much more cheaper than CCGs, is thematically fitting for LotR (also the encounterd eck is usually fitting well), and it doesn't force players to buy new packs, but instead gives them positive incentives (the new quests) to keep buying it. Until now, I bought all products available in my language for LotR (all the APs, but only 1 core set though), and I think I will stick to it, as long as none of the mentioned points gets worsened. I really like the LCG format.

i'm also a completist and a collector. big fan of the artwork. also a strategist. chess is played by people who have the same 16 pieces on the same board with 64 squares. if you get beaten it's because of your own mistakes or the other is that much better than you. but just like in real life there are factors beyond your control, things you can't predict. that's why i like lcg much better. it provides an even playing field for all players. learn how to build a good deck. learn how to beat the other decks. in thrones for example, there are plots and events that bring bring element of life into a game. it's not always the smartest guy who wins. in ccg getting beaten by an opponent because he has a bigger pocketbook or has been collecting for 10 years longer does not sit well with me . total bollocks. i'm not a gambler. i like to know what i'm getting when i give my money way. if i want to play lottery i'll play 6-49. some people get a high playing the lottery. then ccg is for you. i've done ccg and by the end feel used by marketers. i wish all games went lcg. but that's me. . . i do admit i get that aweome feeling when you take your new expansion pack out of the shrink wrap, open the box and start drooling over the amazing artwork, gears a spinning, you're slowly going over every card, every detail, every word. for some it's like christmas morning every time they open one. on the flip side when a ccg player opens his pack a finds that super super rare card that know one in the world has that's a pretty special feeling too.

Pulling a rare card can be fun, but it's a fleeting joy. Having a solidly fun game to play and replay is what I'm after.